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| michael6631. 01. 2020 18:31:52 |
I also went via Hanzovi to Prisank. In 1989. Then there were two big snow patches. I went in sneakers. Why? I couldn't afford hiking boots; crampons and ice axe I had seen only in pictures until then. Of eight, only the first had an ice axe and was chiseling some steps. Well, I'm still alive.
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| MEHOVO31. 01. 2020 18:42:53 |
michael66, finally the person appeared who told the whole truth what all we could climb in the past without all this now "mandatory" equipment and we're still alive,.. really it was nice back then,...
Many an alpinist current technology has pushed to death,.. unfortunately,..
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| zokipoki31. 01. 2020 18:52:00 |
michael66 comment is in place! Good luck!
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| SamoK31. 01. 2020 19:46:30 |
Stopping on a fall on an icy slope is no joke. It's clear that with poles you can't stop, but even with two climbing ice axes you can't. Even with one ice axe it's unlikely that someone without experience will stop!
(Even today a chill runs through me when I watched a person how she tripped (with twelve-point crampons) and couldn't stop. By pure luck she stopped herself before a big rock.)
Don't rave about equipment! And don't answer beginners' questions what equipment to go with in winter to the mountains. The only right answer is to go with someone who knows what it's about.
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| Trobec31. 01. 2020 20:50:24 |
Again one of those endless debates... "Tips" like "crampons maybe needed, ice axe not" would perhaps be best deleted.
Of course equipment alone without knowledge does nothing. And a ton of theoretical knowledge without practice and experience isn't worth much either.
I've self-arrested twice myself, even when with crampons and ice axe you "absolutely must not". That I dug my front teeth into the surface. Because the ice axe didn't bite. First time during training, if I hadn't stopped myself the rope would have caught me. Second time... it wouldn't have ended so well. Probably would have been forced into "using free transport".
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| Zigam1. 02. 2020 13:52:45 |
I'm one of those who runs in the mountains. I was last weekend on Stol in fog with 10m visibility in microspikes, without poles or ice axe in 1h10min from Valvazor. In my opinion everyone is responsible for their own safety, right? The Alpine Association and mountain rescuers issue recommendations, not laws, right? We're not on the road where there's a law about winter tires/equipment.
Their statement: "Sometimes we really feel stupid when we come across people who underestimate the mountains so much," horrified Kranj mountain rescuers told us...
People follow opinions or not. I'm surprised they're surprised.
With increased visits, the number of accidents increases. If Vršič is full of cars every weekend, statistically few accidents in the mountains.
Ueli Steck didn't lack experience or equipment, yet he had an accident. The word itself says it's an ACCIDENT. Sometimes it happens due to wrong equipment, but that's not a prerequisite.
Some go to Triglav by clipping in with a via ferrata set, some run past without touching the cable.
In my opinion you're more prone to error if you have a heavy backpack and boots where every step must be precisely placed, than if you have running shoes, where sometimes I step badly and not even with full weight.
Some people are cautious, some of us are more reckless. An accident can happen to you or us. I don't agree it will happen to me sooner, conditioning, balance, weather, other things we have no control over play a big role..
An accident can happen to me even if I'm standing in BTC and a drunk driver runs me over.
Mountain rescue for wrong equipment use (always in my case) is payable, which we are aware of. Where's the problem? You call and pay the "fine", right? If I'm still able to call of course.
No one has exposed themselves yet I see, I'll be first: this is my way of crossing a snowfield: https://youtu.be/zVy98rxRAI0?t=105
On the forum we write opinions and tips. And they are followed or not.
I wish everyone lots of enjoyment in the mountains,
Žiga Maraž
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| and11. 02. 2020 14:38:05 |
Almost speechless ....I think you don't realize that with your recklessness you're endangering others.
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| miri1. 02. 2020 14:45:00 |
Lots of words for the info on how long you ran to the top.
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| lino1. 02. 2020 15:15:27 |
And1, breathe deeply so nothing squeezes you at home in front of the computer.
Zigam, obviously you're a grandpa in the true sense of the word and an athlete who's mentally and physically well trained and schooled. You have secret assets where minutes are gained. At first read crazy thinking, on the other hand there were also hikers in the mountains with all theoretical and practical equipment, yet today they're dead or pushed into disability. Good luck and stay careful further - luck is on the side of the brave and not on the side of the crazy. Žiga Maraž - enjoy! 
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| j.1. 02. 2020 19:26:15 |
Dear Žiga! I'm afraid you're sending dishonest messages to many who don't have enough experience yet about the ease and simplicity of moving in the mountains. What if someone reads your thinking who, due to lack of knowledge, creates a wrong impression of the difficulty and required knowledge and skills in the mountains? What if he goes on a tour thinking it's completely easy in the same way as you and something happens to him? Will you at least carry part of the responsibility within yourself?
"You call and pay the fine"? Doesn't that statement seem a bit devaluing to those you "call" and come to help? Have you thought that they risk their health, if not life, worry their family, not to mention lost work and free time. I think your stance that paying some "fine" compensates for the rescuers' effort and sacrifice is out of place!
To be clear: I have nothing against mountain running and other activities with minimal equipment, even such that contradicts the generally accepted doctrine of moving in mountains. Equipment alone is no guarantee of safety. You also need to know how to use it and if you handle it correctly, danger reliably decreases. But I'm firmly against half-information: only what's showing personal success is shown. Everything else that also increases safety but is unpopular - hard work in preparations, training, sacrifice, psychophysical readiness, experience, body weight, youth - is carefully omitted and hidden. Most often also failures, blunders and even accidents! Such distorted truth easily misleads the inattentive or uneducated to, following the written example, unwisely and unprepared tackle something they're not up to. Consequences can be tragic.
And to balance your opinion with a quote from Gore in ljudje:
"Lately more and more hikers choose ascent in snowy mountains using microspikes and ski poles. Accordingly, the number of slip accidents has increased. Mountain rescuers again warn all hikers that in winter conditions as currently in the mountains, safe walking requires proper use of ice axe and proper crampons.
GRS Tolmin Miljko Lesjak"
I wish you many more beautiful mountain runs, and please greet your running buddy Bojan! I highly value his blog (running, mountaineering, astronomical and whatever else he has)!
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| jax1. 02. 2020 19:43:11 |
"Lately more and more hikers choose ascent in snowy mountains using microspikes and ski poles. Accordingly, the number of slip accidents has increased. Mountain rescuers again warn all hikers that in winter conditions as currently in the mountains, safe walking requires proper use of ice axe and proper crampons.
GRS Tolmin Miljko Lesjak"
With due respect to Mr. Lesjak, such a claim should be backed by some analysis. To me, claiming that microspikes are to blame for everything is a bit sweeping. If nothing else, it would be appropriate to mention two potential factors. First - snowpack condition - it hasn't been so icy for a long time as in recent weeks - and second - very mass visits to mountains also due to good weather and accessible roads. Until we clarify the impact of these two, I think talking only about microspikes is a bit off the cuff.
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| mirank2. 02. 2020 18:46:26 |
Stol was today in nice weather really the right choice. Little snow, consolidated snow cover starts above the bushes. I wouldn't discuss equipment, although much is visible. But it's true that microspikes would be very useful on the trail section below and above Prižnica; definitely though you have no use for them on the section from the hut directly down.
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| zavest3. 02. 2020 13:57:32 |
> "Mountain rescue for wrong equipment use (always in my case) is payable, which we are aware of. Where's the problem? You call and pay the "fine", right?"
Do you think mountain rescuers share such thinking? Precisely those guys and girls who drop everything at emergency calls and go consciously risking their own lives? Because of someone who consciously decided to be reckless, and relies on mobile signal and "I'll pay anyway".
As if that's the only problem ... no, Žiga, the problem is when due to such thinking in wrong circumstances others also suffer. This isn't IT, where at a screw-up you can do undo or redeploy 
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| iUnknown4. 02. 2020 11:01:30 |
I support zigam.
But it seems funny to me that whenever our experts rant about chains, almost always one of these experienced experts then gets killed. And that with full equipment.
I think you need to know where and when to use proper crampons and when these small crampons that "experts" call chains. For e.g. Velika Planina I certainly won't use big crampons. Small ones are quite sufficient. Although last Sunday everything was covered in ice, the small crampons held quite well, and I wasn't any slower than if it had been completely dry and bare.
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| VanSims4. 02. 2020 12:09:26 |
@zigam I support you too but under certain conditions or let all his imitators consider these conditions too. Conditions are:
1. Walk on lonely paths so with your poor equipment and ignorance you won't endanger others.
2. Before going to the mountains, inform rescuers not to come to rescue you in case of accident or don't call them and thus don't put them in danger too.
3. Finally legalize that accident costs (rescue, transport, treatment,...) are not paid by taxpayers in solidarity but introduce commercial insurance system like in most western countries for such cases.
BTW. To those thinking insurance will always pay everything, let me whisper that in case of proven negligence, poor equipment and overestimation of abilities (also inexperience) of the insured, it's not obliged to pay coverage.
Under these conditions anyone can really do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I missed some condition, please supplement me.
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| jprim4. 02. 2020 12:24:24 |
No, again one full of praise and self-admiration.
Boasting never pays off.
Best regards,
Jelica
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| JusAvgustin4. 02. 2020 16:36:28 |
When called we go. It doesn't interest us why, how, for what and similar. We're also not there to judge and ascertain. Other services are competent for that. Our absolute priority is to break through to the injured and get the casualty to EMS or vehicle. The rest doesn't interest us.
Juš Avguštin, GRS Radovljica
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| jprim4. 02. 2020 19:43:32 |
Beautiful statement, worthy of respect.
That means years do their thing, to make a person thoughtful and respectful.
Best regards!
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| čebejla4. 02. 2020 23:45:55 |
Mr. Juš Avguštin, a big thank you to you and your team, everyday heroes, but unfortunately too rarely mentioned.!!! Hope I never need you, but glad there are people worthy of the word Human!... unlike most
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| skajci12. 02. 2020 22:17:39 |
I agree with all these warnings, there are never enough and in my opinion nothing will change as long as rescue is free.
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