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| SamoK30. 01. 2020 23:59:29 |
This constant emphasis on equipment is completely misguided.
Key are experience and perception of conditions. With experience comes undeniable knowledge of what equipment is needed and when.
Without experience, even the best equipment doesn't help. If you check mountain accidents closely, you'll see it's not lack of equipment, but lack of experience. Plus often over-reliance on equipment which without experience has no real effect.
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| djimuzl31. 01. 2020 00:41:53 |
Misguided above all is giving "advice" contrary to basic rules of safe walking in winter conditions.
We can't "upload" experience to individuals via this portal, we can only warn what safe behavior is in current conditions. And that's exactly what I did.
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| VanSims31. 01. 2020 09:59:59 |
I have to say I'd partially agree with @SamoK this time. For Stol at this time of year there's no question of winter gear or not, even if conditions were favorable where it's (supposedly) not needed.
The experienced knows where not to go in certain seasons without (as someone once colorfully put it on this portal) 'crampons' and 'ice axe'.
Advice on whether winter gear is needed or not makes sense only in edge cases e.g. if there's still some snow patch on this or that path. Winter gear takes space and weight but when it's clear how and what, no question.
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| djimuzl31. 01. 2020 10:25:33 |
This is a concrete example where someone "thinks" that an ice axe isn't needed with crampons.
Once something like that is written, immediate action is needed - a warning that such (incorrect) equipment use is dangerous - so that such reckless behavior (and consequent writing about it) doesn't get any more "repeaters".
Experiences - which we gather also by accepting and following advice on safe winter hiking - are definitely an important part of every mountaineer's "mental gear", I totally agree, but we should discuss that "in the valley" and not in the middle of Stol's slopes.
"...his colleague was also poorly equipped, with proper crampons but only poles, no ice axe. This is, as we've been warning for years, deadly dangerous, since you can't self-arrest in a fall. Sometimes we really feel silly running into people who underestimate the mountains like that," horrified Kranj mountain rescuers told us....
Horvat, T.: Died while photographing the full moon (in Slovenske novice, January 30, 2020)
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| Rutil31. 01. 2020 11:02:56 |
"Legally?"
and in summer for Stol via Zirovnica don't forget helmet, SVK, 50m rope + harness, mountaineering boots with AT LEAST 3mm Perwanger leather, Vibram sole and some *Tex membrane, pants with kevlar reinforcement and 3-layer Goretex jackets plus merino wool base layer. Besides that, for orientation on this path, a map at a scale of max 1:1000 or at least GPS and for any case satellite phone is welcome. 
then nothing can happen to you. You're 100% safe.
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| j.31. 01. 2020 11:14:31 |
Slovenske novice, sneakers, microspikes: hmm, why do participants in such stories never post their exploits on social media when things go wrong?
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| Domch31. 01. 2020 11:39:25 |
I don't hate my microspikes , although you can slip and fall with them.
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| Rutil31. 01. 2020 12:07:43 |
"hmm, why do participants in such stories never post their exploits on social networks?"
on Grintovec they all ran in sneakers without helmets and it was pretty well media-covered, not just on social networks.
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| j.31. 01. 2020 12:16:01 |
Rutil, yeah self-promo runs smoothly. The other part is mostly posted by rescuers.
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| Rutil31. 01. 2020 12:32:09 |
"Rutil, yeah self-promo runs smoothly. The other part is mostly posted by rescuers."
really didn't know there were so many accidents at Grintovec runs.
weird that they then ran so many or let them organize at such number of accidents.
how many accidents total at Grintovec run? cuz I'd think they'd cancel the event after the first accident.
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| j.31. 01. 2020 12:41:05 |
I cited the article in Slovenske novice, which besides the sad-ending story also describes the "feat" from Mojstrovka, not the Grintovec run...
Slovenske novice
You can also check this fresh one from Vogl on the portal 24ur.com
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| Rutil31. 01. 2020 13:23:34 |
sorry; I thought your comment was general about sneakers and microspikes and not about the specific case from slovenske novice
accident just happens - with bad gear and ignorance probably (much) sooner, but gear as such or hammering that you MUST have ice axe with crampons...duh; if you're a bumbler gear for 5000€ doesn't help or I'm sure Üli Steck had perfect gear on and ended like this photographer.
still wonder why they fly helicopter literally for free
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| djimuzl31. 01. 2020 13:52:11 |
When hiking with crampons, ice axe use is mandatory. For bumblers, those who aren't and also for those to whom this thousand-times repeated fact just won't enter their heads.
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| and131. 01. 2020 14:53:37 |
I'm speechless over some of the above comments -I wonder how adult men who are supposed to be mountaineers or hikers can write such immature and at the same time dangerous comments.
Think a bit and weigh your words before you post a comment.
Show yourselves, don't write under usernames and there will probably be less immaturity in your posts.
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| Rutil31. 01. 2020 15:58:52 |
"When hiking with crampons the use of ice axe is mandatory."
for you maybe, I won't judge you because I don't know you. everyone should judge for themselves what they need and what not.
"Show yourselves, don't write under usernames"
said "AND1"
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| Zebdi31. 01. 2020 16:08:33 |
Rutil, they do judge. Then helicopter and sometimes even condolences on social networks 
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| Rutil31. 01. 2020 16:13:00 |
"Rutil, they judge. Then helicopter and sometimes condolences on social networks"
every lesson costs something, such are unfortunately expensive. and if folk still inadequately equipped head to mountains it's their problem. my problem with it is only that they push GRS into shit, who pull them out literally for free by some impossible logic in my view.
but I won't tell anyone that something is MANDATORY for anyone. especially not for equipment worth LITERALLY nothing if you don't know how to use it.
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| djimuzl31. 01. 2020 17:01:18 |
"...likewise his colleague was poorly equipped who had proper crampons but only poles and no ice axe. This is, as we warn for years, deadly dangerous as you can't stop yourself when falling. Sometimes we really feel stupid when we run into people who underestimate mountains so much," horrified Kranj mountain rescuers told us...
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| darinka431. 01. 2020 17:16:47 |
I remember in the summer when I went via Hanzova to Prisank. That snow patch which remains through the summer, at least last year it remained, was passable with the use of both. Those who had only crampons or an ice axe had to turn around. And there were quite a few, although there was a sign below on the path that both are needed.
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