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| ogo21. 01. 2012 05:16:53 |
Probably "enit" has no balls to try flying with paraglider, that's why he vents on keyboard. Hats off to everyone who dares jump with paraglider!
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| IgorZlodej21. 01. 2012 06:46:28 |
If you break something, better not hang it on the big bell. Attacks on @enit are totally unnecessary .
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| pikec121. 01. 2012 10:01:43 |
LP
Agree with Igor, true that this ain't no shitting in tnp. No damage (pollution) done with paraglider. Most shitting done by hikers (not all) throwing trash in tnp, smoking in hills, pissing...... those are pissers, not someone descending with paraglider.
Good we can still hike.....
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| GregorC21. 01. 2012 10:06:38 |
Another senseless law in a row of many. Sad. But true it's better not to post such things. Especially because of enit and similar moralists who are obviously perfect themselves.
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| Irina21. 01. 2012 10:38:35 |
Hope this won't be yet another topic for disputes.
The talk wasn't about whether paragliders pollute TNP or not. But about forbidden activities.
My opinion is, if something is forbidden, it's forbidden. Is it so hard to understand and respect? Children usually justify their own offenses with the sins of others, which in their view are even bigger. Aren't you children? And if not, then behave according to your age.
I notice that for the average Slovene a written ban is no longer enough, but there need to be physical barriers to respect the law. On many mountain paths there's a sign that further driving is prohibited. For a cultured nation that would be enough. No, here almost no one respects it. Good example is Tamar. More and more "piš-me-vuh" heroes who would drive to the top of the mountain if possible. They put up ramps with locks, because for the hooligans even a ramp alone isn't enough.
Respect the rules, protect nature and enjoy its gifts.
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| pikec121. 01. 2012 12:35:00 |
Why is everything forbidden in our miserable Slovenia?? Because of the miserable laws written for the sedentary fat elite, that's why there are ,,violators,,. Mountain biking, paragliding, I could list more. Abroad it's not like that, it's welcome and they support development. There are organized tracks, destinations. Why can you descend from Mont Blanc, but not from Kredarica?? Why can't you go by bike to Komna and similar. Why doesn't tourism want to develop? Bohinj, Kranjska Gora is perfect for that.
Enough now, no hard feelings 
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| urarrr21. 01. 2012 13:16:30 |
I see some of you are more papal than the Pope himself. Do you live to live or to enjoy....
Regarding laws...they are written under the influence of various lobbyists...but laws also change over time....I think this one will too....
what will happen then.....horror right
A week ago on the descent from Kredarica someone nagged me why the dog wasn't tied...but it doesn't matter it wasn't mine and it weighed only about 15 kg...what mattered was it wasn't tied....
I see some don't calm down enough upon entry. Maybe some HELEX would help....
If someone looks for a hair in the egg they'll always find it, one way or another
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| JusAvgustin21. 01. 2012 13:47:17 |
and when a helicopter almost hits a AS on the top it's fine right?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? And when they rescue again folks who have no clue about mountains, because poorly equipped, no basics etc... And pollution left and right, helicopter flyovers... But paraglider, which is silent, doesn't pollute the environment and doesn't disturb either PEOPLE or animals (humans are anyway one dumb animal!) and all that fuss. That's one big stupidity. That's really the last thing we should worry about!
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| enit22. 01. 2012 13:03:03 |
What it means to be brave for someone can be harder to tell a girl: "I like you!", than to do something otherwise human but at the cost of one's own life. For the latter they pin a medal on you for brave deed at the end, which you try to forget, but the first one you rejoice in every day of life. I've experienced both, so I can think about it that way. No one ever asks you about those feelings that are hard to explain anymore, but I know I would do it again. But would I do something in full consciousness and knowing it's forbidden? Or even to the detriment of someone else or just that because of which I keep coming back to find out it's still as wildly calm and respectful? For myself I know NO, and I'm not papal at all but a simple individual who dares to tell someone that he's shitting on what I simply love. I hope this explanation of mine is sufficient justification for what I have and will write on this forum in the future (hope as few shortcomings as possible). I respect paragliders, since I also come from a family whose roots are closely connected to aviation, but the location (Kredarica) is not suitable and unfortunately Jalovec neither.
How it was with the helicopter on the top I know best, because I didn't read forums and newspapers nor watch news reports but was there present. I've been to many places where something was done or at least tried to be done. That's why we are Friends.
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| polh22. 01. 2012 15:30:00 |
Why is it good that paragliding from Triglav/Kredarica is forbidden? A paraglider physically causes less damage on the path than a hiker and also on the way down a paraglider won't throw away any trash, which can't be guaranteed with a hiker, especially a tourist one. So a paraglider has less impact on the surroundings than a hiker.
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| urbancek22. 01. 2012 15:40:42 |
Maybe because of helicopters??
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| Edi222. 01. 2012 15:50:43 |
When I read this debate I simply don't know what to think. Everyone is smart, each on their side but when it gets stuck somewhere, then call for rescue. There is a law on mountain paths where mountain biking is clearly defined, where you can ride and where not. At PZS there is also a commission for touring cycling and there you can get all necessary info. I assume paragliders also have rules where and when they can take off. How to behave in presence of helicopter in high mountains during its landing or takeoff every experienced mountaineer should know, so the claim that helicopter almost hit someone seems very nonsensical to me.
Bikers, go abroad and ride freely on mountain paths that are not for bikes, you'll see what real law respect is.
Paragliders, use take-off sites registered for you since most of your accidents happen there and in their vicinity.
Above all bikers and paragliders consider you're not alone and rescuers also have their families with whom they want to spend their free time.
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| urbancek22. 01. 2012 15:54:25 |
Edi2, I agree, some things have escalated a bit too much....
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| GregorC22. 01. 2012 16:28:41 |
Edi2 if we had mountain biking as well organized as abroad there wouldn't be any problem. Abroad riding on mountain trails is allowed and encouraged. Mountain biking is an increasingly important tourist branch. Of course they also have closed areas and that's respected. But if mountain bikers here have to respect closed trails then we can stop cycling. I agree certain sections should be closed, not everything generally as set up here.
As for the Commission for Touring Cycling at PZS it's very welcome, but PZS doesn't follow its proposals on this issue.
And regarding your last paragraph. Rescuers have much more work with hikers than cyclists, so don't talk nonsense.
There's enough space for all, just need tolerance from everyone involved. LP
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| Okmodko22. 01. 2012 16:30:53 |
Listen, where is that big Triglav? Is it near Donačka?
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| tol22. 01. 2012 16:35:03 |
Since cyclists are mentioned, I have to speak up.
Yeah, simply the majority overrules the minority, even without a real reason. That's how it must be and will be.
Technology is developing and today you can cycle to 2000m with a bike. Yeah, then you damage holes, increase erosion etc...
yeah, bullshit, and hikers? What is a hiking trail? Intervention in nature. Look at Kamniški vrh...1000 shortcuts, each shortcut has another 100 sections. One trail part is "closed" but everyone uses it anyway....
We need to work hand in hand, listen and observe the participants in nature....
Hikers can have millions of trails, huts we built where needed...but we can't agree that trails are "open" for all...
On hiking trails many rushed past me and got mad...I stopped, talked, and we always parted "friendly" so far.
Laws are there to be respected, right. I hope whoever writes this always sticks to speed limits on the road and doesn't dare go 1 km/h over....
Since abroad is mentioned. YES, no general ban on all trails. Just some closed to cyclists for good reasons. We don't have that. Got a bike? Go ride on road. On road folk honks, drives 5 cm past handlebar...
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| Irina22. 01. 2012 17:06:02 |
Instead of wasting energy on online fights, use it more usefully so that you'll get something out of it. From writing "here up there" only your blood pressure will rise, no effect.
Don't wait for clerks in various state offices to move paper if you don't constantly poke them. Organize yourselves, prepare your proposals, loudly and publicly support the Commission at PZS, prepare public tribunes, sacrifice some of your free time also for paperwork and raising awareness of the broader public.
Still, when a sufficiently large and loud group with clear proposals gathered, it achieved its goal.
A new law is being prepared, are you informed, do you participate, have you asked anyone anything, have you joined? Therefore, to fight for your space under the sun (mountain bikers), you will have to make an effort yourselves and not always wait for someone else to do it for you.
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