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To Triglav?

planika508. 09. 2011 06:13:43

Dog ascent to Triglav summit is nothing new. I think there are no regulations here who can climb to the very top, every dog owner takes himself and his dog on his own responsibility towards the top. Much worse is when guys lead their chosen ones with shaking legs and panting towards the top and luckily there are many mountaineers who know how to step aside and give them way.

(+1)

heinz8. 09. 2011 08:08:13

VanSims read:
http://www.gore-ljudje.net/informacije/69178/
you'll realize that a human can also cause an accident to another human in the mountains..

VanSims8. 09. 2011 08:57:27

Heinz, that's clear to me. Human-human accidents are certainly more but that's because people are still the vast majority in the mountains. If dogs were as numerous in the mountains as people there would certainly be more dog-human accidents. The probability that a dog on some demanding (higher ranked path) causes an accident is certainly higher than that a human does. Dog (except maybe rescue and trained ones) doesn't know what an abyss is, doesn't know dangers, doesn't know what triggering rocks means,...

planika50: You hit the point! No regulations, that's the problem! And you hit the point of thinking of such irresponsible owner: 'himself and dog on own responsibility'. No responsibility towards others for him. And that's the problem. If only he was in danger, I wouldn't care at all.

Otherwise I've also seen such a guy and a shaking hiker how they were descending the easier variant from Gradiška tour. Probably not climbers because no gear, probably came from Nanosa and thought: let's hack it here! Maybe also mistake of local PD not to put a sign that it's a demanding path, since you can come down via nice forest path over Plaz for example. But I forgot to check if she maybe had high heels. velik nasmeh

heinz8. 09. 2011 09:11:47

Sadly I have to tell you, VanSims, that you're wrong in many things. E.g.: dog doesn't know what abyss is, what danger is..
Also the claim (judgment) that someone is irresponsible dog owner because he took it to Triglav equally doesn't hold. It looks like you're a theorist of your ideas based on fear of dogs. Once crouch in front of a dog and let it lick your face, and you'll probably slowly abandon theorizing.
The only thing worth noting here is that dogs can't handle climbing since they have no hands. Therefore it's most uncomfortable for them on via ferratas.

krasovc8. 09. 2011 09:45:31

Dogs don't have hands for climbing, so as you say, you'd have to bash the dog's owner. Dogs really get on my nerves, especially if they're not on a leash (as the law provides), I've already sorted one out because it barked at my son. That's the downside, that's why I'm/we're equipped with sprays and knives to resolve the situation on the spot. It's sad but there are no other options to teach at least the dog owners that not everyone likes being licked by some dog, let it go lick ass elsewhere. Heinz, I think if a cow licked you it would be the same as if a dog did it? And a cow surely won't chase you, dogs occasionally definitely will.

VanSims8. 09. 2011 09:56:50

Heinz: whoever takes a dog on demanding and higher-rated paths is irresponsible. I stand by that. Did the dog that pulled its owner into the abyss on Planjava know what an abyss is? And as krasovc said, a dog has no brains, although it's true that many dogs are smarter than their owners.

As for fear of dogs. Yeah sure, if a barking and snarling dog comes at you, you'll be scared, who wouldn't. And even with seemingly calm ones I'm cautious. It's also a hygiene issue, question how the owner cares for it, what the dog has sniffed with its snout before it starts slobbering on you or even licking you, what diseases it has,... Would you let an unknown person (ok say female) just hug and lick you and I don't know what.

Otherwise my friend also has a dog that we get along well with and cuddle. The first time I came to him it barked at me too, but once we got to know each other better now we get along great. But that's a dog I know! With unknown dogs you never know and stop forcing them on us!

heinz8. 09. 2011 10:17:25

maybe you don't know how many more millions of bacteria a human has in its mouth than a dog.. and what kind of acid a dog / human has, etc. Dog saliva destroys harmful bacteria in a few seconds, in a human mouth they just multiply.. So, boldly stick your face to the dog: you'll become real friends.. such a dog will then trust you forever and defend you. mežikanje

usantej8. 09. 2011 10:21:47

Maybe a bit more explanation about my picture (I didn't expect so much discussion). The dog's guides were foreigners - German-speaking, the dog had a mountain rescue badge on it and at first glance you could see it was trained and obeyed commands. But it's also true that I've never seen such a scared dog as yesterday, at places where it was looking for the path it was shaking and seemed very frightened. That's why the scene shocked me a bit and I'm of the opinion that on higher-rated paths a dog has no business being there, even if it's a rescuer I can't imagine how it can be helpful on some hard-to-reach terrain in the middle of a via ferrata. (But this is just a layman's assessment and not an expert opinion.)

heinz8. 09. 2011 10:24:09

P.s. - I wouldn't drag my Rex on Triglav (I've written about it once), even though I know well he could make it. But why >torture< him, what would he get out of it. I'm not into bragging about such an achievement..
But dogs are quite different too, for many the ascent to Tr. is no big deal for sure, while others shake just looking over an edge.. (similar to people)

VanSims8. 09. 2011 10:41:35

heinz: yeah, that's it. I think the problem is that you judge all dogs by your own dog and owners by yourself, who might be responsible. Yours might really be used to mountains, if it accompanies you regularly, not afraid of heights, handles somewhat harder path sections, maybe you also make sure it doesn't endanger other people,...

But you have to realize that most dogs that go to the mountains (especially on such crowded paths - even lower than Triglav) are mostly couch dogs, locked in apartments, houses, garages, doghouses or even on chains (maybe some have at least a yard to run a bit) once a day maybe they go for a walk. To the mountains maybe 1-2x a year. How will such a dog behave properly in the mountains? And if the owner is so stupid to take such a dog to the mountains, how will he then watch that it doesn't do some stupidity?

heinz8. 09. 2011 12:29:36

About dogs (or their owners), I think we've already debated - somewhere else. I don't judge either dogs or owners: whether they're couch, house, garage, yard, etc. You though, as I see, really master the topic..

FLEKSARCA8. 09. 2011 14:21:13

Heinz, VanSims, dogs bite like your mountain NOB markers velik nasmeh

. Come on, make up a bit already.

VanSims8. 09. 2011 14:31:46

Heinz, just one more remark, that you yourself started (justifiably) distinguishing dogs. They really are quite different.

And one more question: why in Austria, when I was wandering the mountains there during vacation and now two weekends in a row, I had no problems with any dog. Here with us almost on every trip with one. So where's the problem?

turbo8. 09. 2011 14:55:18

The dog is man's best friend.
Man is wolf to man.

That's not from my wishbook, it's been written many places and times.

(+1)

Kozorog8. 09. 2011 22:31:37

Yeah, dog and wolf are related.. nasmeh

so no essential difference! But I feel sorry for the animal when irresponsible owners drag it everywhere, even where dog doesn't belong.
You can see from the picture how the dog is smarter than its owner, sure scared, but still sat down and rests!

heinz8. 09. 2011 22:34:43

ouch, what the h. ! now you've got him - o zavijanje z očmi

sergejjj10. 09. 2011 10:45:31

Yesterday on Triglav. Start at 4:00 from in front of Aljažev dom towards Luknja and over Plemenice to the top. Weather almost perfect if I subtract occasional fog and sometimes such cold wind that winter hat was needed. Descent to Staničev dom and over Prag back to Aljažev dom.

metuzalem4313. 09. 2011 12:24:10

metuzalem43
On Saturday after 50 years I was again on Triglav via path from Planika. For my EMŠO and XXL the most suitable path. Descent was enriched by meeting 100 women just below M.Triglav, which guides handled well and safely.