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| VanSims4. 10. 2011 22:26:48 |
This weekend on Slemenova špica, which is really very crowded, I saw quite a few dogs. Only one Samoyed was tied, the others (e.g. a cute retriever) unleashed, otherwise friendly and nice to see them, although probably in a civilized western country they would be on leashes.
Well, when descending just before the turnoff to Tamar someone was scaring with an unleashed German Shepherd (some 'Šapi' or what the owner called it), which looked scared, nervous and like it would charge at the crowd of passersby any moment. Of course no sign of a leash. Obviously another one who came (actually probably drove to nearby Vršič) to the mountains with the dog to show off and scare.
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| VanSims5. 10. 2011 22:38:41 |
Well, my experiences from abroad are that dogs there are at least at points where there are many people nicely tied up. Of course there you also find some smart aleck, show-off,... who thinks he's an exception but in at least 90% at huts, crowded peaks, waiting for cable car,... dogs nicely on leashes. It hasn't happened to me like here, that dogs run freely everywhere.
Also on paths they are mainly leashed. You don't meet them on demanding paths (admittedly also rare here but still). If already unleashed on the path, it's friendly or passes by as if you're not there. In short: socialized and friendly ones are sometimes off-leash, others leashed.
I have only one bad experience from abroad, about experiences here I rather not talk. I hike foreign mountains about as much as domestic ones.
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| VanSims6. 10. 2011 11:59:13 |
Maybe one fifth of owners are like you, with the others upon warning or request to move him away, tie him up,... (even if he would do it without me asking) I experience one or more of the following:
- "he won't do anything"
- "what do you want?!?"
- insults
- mocking
- yelling
- aggressiveness
- threats of force
About 20% of these then maybe (after long negotiation and losing nerves) really tie the dog or move him away, while possibly still messing with you a bit:
- ties him, but dog still right in front of you. He's tied, right?
- moves him off the path but so that you have to go right past his snarling or barking muzzle.
- ...
We're talking of course about owners on the sunny side of the Alps.
I'm not a person who is arrogant, proud, haughty but I demand from fellow humans that minimum respect, besides I go to nature to relax from daily obligations and worries not to get additionally annoyed so I stopped such warnings. I just act. I feel sorry for the dog (though pepper long-term doesn't harm), because it always pays for its master's sins, the master doesn't!
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| Lunatic11. 10. 2011 14:17:27 |
I basically agree, that's why there are so many unsuitable dogs then unleashed in nature, a dog that shows any aggression towards humans, dogs animals is not to be let off or is for leash + muzzle, if you know e.g. the bitch is not tolerant to other females don't let her off even in the middle of the forest on Pokljuka, although almost no chance to meet one (even if she masters recall, some young bitch can fly in, which then innocently suffers and a vicious circle arises), owners are definitely too little aware of this, the reason for the previous post was this contrast urban - nature, owner and dog who is not capable for off-leash in crowded also not suitable for nature. Hope you agree with this 
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| VanSims11. 10. 2011 17:25:27 |
About laws in this area we already talked: they are bad, inappropriate, non-European, those who should enforce them are too mild. That's why such chaos as it is and some can do whatever they want.
It was similar on the road. Fifteen-twenty years ago we had bad laws and poor control and no fines and chaos. Of course not all were like that but because of a certain percentage of 'driving idiots' it was so. Then they tightened legislation, control and fines and now it's much better. Many of those idiots sobered up or were removed from the road. But it's not good yet which shows it's a long process.
In the dog area we are now still where we were fifteen-twenty years ago in traffic.
MajO: in every area unfortunately there's possibility for extremes: question is whether society tolerates them or not. Here they obviously still do in this area! And it really throws bad light on all dog owners. Every group of people, society unfortunately judges by negative extremes. That's why I'm surprised that precisely among dog owners (and responsible ones) such opposition to legal changes.
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| heinz12. 10. 2011 09:05:36 |
>unfortunately throws bad light on all dog owners<- VanSims, I see no bad light. That's your invention!
>society unfortunately judges by negative extremes<- VanSims, not >society<, but you yourself. Basically you're quite alone with your phobias, or rather you mainly make subjective assessments.
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| VanSims12. 10. 2011 12:56:34 |
@Heinz: Many have spoken up on this topic and agreed with me and I think there were even more than opponents. And read around the forums a bit. Not only dog but various running, cycling,... And you'll see I'm far from alone. There are many more who are afraid of you (don't know why) and are silent.
Precisely such self-absorbed owners like you give bad reputation (and don't pretend again you don't understand words in figurative sense) to all other owners. Because of such (me and my dog first then long nothing then maybe neighbor's dog) many people don't like dogs.
Besides you, many sensible owners have spoken on this topic, whose dogs I believe would be nice to see and meet them too.
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| heinz12. 10. 2011 14:14:33 |
Look, VanSims you're just confirming one thing again - that you're overexcited: those who contradict your exaggerations are simply bad owners for you etc., bad rep, self-deluded.. -(me and my dog first then long nothing then maybe neighbor's dog)
Your reasoning is strange!
Also your claim that many people don't like dogs is purely yours! It definitely doesn't hold, or it's baseless.
And this one: that people fear even the owners themselves!
Come on, hold your horses!
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| VanSims12. 10. 2011 14:39:54 |
****heinz said:****:those who contradict your exaggerations are simply bad owners for you etc., bad rep, self-deluded.
Sadly I don't know what you mean by this exaggeration. If I emphasize that there's such a law, that we need to introduce some dog culture and not force others with our turds is that exaggeration? Nice thinking, yeah!
Many people don't like dogs. That's sadly true. Not everyone who doesn't protest if a dog is unleashed where it should be leashed is necessarily a dog friend. Nor everyone who has to endure barking, jumping, dog bothering... Many quietly suffer the terror. I was like that too until I stood up.
And yes, irresponsible owners themselves are more to be feared than their dogs. My experiences with irresponsible owners show that. The dog is just its mirror!
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| turbo13. 10. 2011 10:04:05 |
Nice that Christmas and New Year's holidays are approaching 
VanSims, have you already written to Santa for a nice little doggie
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| VanSims13. 10. 2011 10:55:03 |
MajaO: very nice! Just don't like the part where you walk them unleashed...  Ok, then if you're alone let them run wild of course! 
Oh, what does it mean when the dog rotates around its axis when you give it treats?  
turbo: yeah, I'd like a dog but a dog is responsibility not just to others but to the dog too. I'll admit I'm egoist and too lazy to care for it, daily walks, feeding, vets, vaccinations, classes... plus spend a ton of money. But to half-ass care for it like some do, no.
Besides I'm in an apartment and big dogs (no to small yappers) don't belong there in my opinion cuz it's torture for them.
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| turbo13. 10. 2011 14:16:06 |
@MajaO
...that we're different, you're right...
Tolerance to those who think differently . . . NO imposing your opinion on others . . .
Mutual respect is, sadly, less and less nowadays 
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| GregorC13. 10. 2011 14:42:05 |
Majao super video. Nice to see and meet such well-trained dogs. And of course responsible owners.
Most unfortunately don't realize what responsibility having a dog is. Sadly just those cast bad light on all. I have a friend who fears dogs so much (unlucky past event), we simply can't take her to the mountains anymore cuz some dog always sticks to her.
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| heinz13. 10. 2011 15:08:05 |
for those who have(m) bad memory and let(m) themselves be teased.
Hi!
I'm new to hiking and need some idea for a trip with dog. So looking for mountains/hills that are less visited even on these summer weekends and no fixed protections, walls to climb on the way...
Last Sunday we were at Kurji vrh and it was great, didn't meet a soul. I have a friendly dog, but it's big and not all people like dogs.
Would be glad for any suggestion. Thanks (U&Q)
Just so much for refresh on what the original purpose of opening the topic was..
maybe there's also option to open new topic with different title.
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| VanSims13. 10. 2011 16:39:36 |
It's not bad if people who have dogs and are even professionally knowledgeable tell a bit how and what with dog in mountains and also mention legal aspects and general dog culture for the unaware.
@GregorC: What about some forced means to repel dogs? Because I think it's utterly stupid that a person lets some irresponsible cattle dictate where they can and can't go!
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| heinz13. 10. 2011 17:32:15 |
I don't know why it seems more and more to me that Mate07 disposes of a wide palette of usernames..
The only animal that's disturbing in nature is human. And no animal has done so much damage to nature as human. (turbo)
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| turbo13. 10. 2011 18:02:20 |
I'll supercharge it. Very very.
First all dogs on a leash, even the best trained ones. And many still won't be satisfied. So all dogs on leashes get a muzzle on the snout too. And still not satisfied. Well, in the end the dog stays home, owner in the mountains.
But bad luck, many dog owners don't know how to behave somehow, either don't greet or don't respond, look weird, or . . . in short, irritate someone. And to avoid misunderstanding, better both owner and owner stay home. With their dog.
And then that one will be happy . . . but what when a snake crawls across the path, a marmot whistles behind a rock, a chamois triggers a stone . . . well, that can be fixed too. Shoot some, chase some . . . and then maybe peace. Maybe. If the weather doesn't trick.
I get along fine with everything that crawls, walks and flies in our mountains. With an ibex we even talked on Mišelj vrh. Wallcreepers eat from my hand in many places. If I find a snail on the road, I carry it to the grass.
Animal kills for the "belly" (hunger)
Human is the only animal capable of killing for pleasure.
Woof Woof
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| heinz13. 10. 2011 18:12:10 |
bravo turbo! That's healthy mountain common sense or wisdom! Handshake!
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| VanSims13. 10. 2011 20:13:26 |
@heinz: that one was barefoot now!
VanSims is VanSims and will stay that way because he stands by everything he says.
***@turbo said:*** Human is the only animal capable of killing for pleasure.
Why then do you say man is wolf to man? Man to man is (sadly) man!
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