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| heinz13. 10. 2011 20:20:50 |
Barefoot up or down, regarding the username it would certainly be appropriate if you renamed yourself to dog lover.
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| VanSims13. 10. 2011 20:59:18 |
Well, I knew they'd uncover me under this name too...
OK, I'm a mountain lover who climbed Via Italiana without a self-belay kit. Now looking for young company for winter joys in mountains!
And as VanSims I have to listen to accusations from heinz and turbo (one person?), because I want to spend my hikes and trips in peace without suffering terror from irresponsible dog owners!
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| FLEKSARCA13. 10. 2011 21:06:20 |
Admit it, you took your time for that post above, right?
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| turbo13. 10. 2011 21:34:26 |
From the first post on I use exclusively one "nickname". If you look at my profile, one can see it's made from initials of surname and name 
(back in the day I had the same "nickname" on PZS forum too)
I can't stand people who lecture others.
For example:
in one post someone asks what gear is needed for a certain tour, in the next post the same person advises someone whose climb grade is one or two levels harder, how and what to do on the tour.
Person who hates dogs and their owners (mostly), poses as cynology expert and psychotherapist in one.
People annoy me who write: tomorrow I'll do, tomorrow I'm going. First do the tour, then make a description and possibly add a photo. And don't boast too much, because many on this and other forums are faster, more experienced, more capable . . .
And don't be insecure and don't hide behind various "nicknames".
And yes, mostly pathless trails are my paths for decades. Because I too want to experience mountains in peace and quiet.
Away from impatient, hostile thinkers, hiding behind various nicknames insecure persons like vansimsi, mateji, ljubitelji and quite likely some more  And similar.
To all who really love mountains, good luck! 
When alone on tour, in two, three or more and of course especially to all who go to mountains with your "furry" friends
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| ursula10007514. 10. 2011 06:44:15 |
OK, a bit for fun but maybe also because I sometimes go to mountains with an obedient dog and I've met ones like VanSims.
ZZZiv terminology in point 22 of article 5 says:
22. Public place is public area as defined in law regulating public order and peace protection, except areas where there is no or no expectation of larger number of people.
Which I can interpret also that if I go to a mountain where usually there is not much traffic my dog which is not dangerous (interpretation next point) can be free.
Regardless that you took law into your hands (VanSims) they could fine you under article 15.
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| Lothar14. 10. 2011 07:01:48 |
"Animal kills for "belly" (hunger)
Human is the only animal capable of killing for pleasure."
Tell that to our cat, who has plenty of everything, but still can't resist hunting birds or mice, even if it doesn't eat the killed one afterwards. Once it even played with the head of some poor sparrow. If it doesn't kill purely for pleasure, then none does. I'm sure it's not the only one. Just like people differ among themselves, animals do too..
Otherwise I have mostly positive experiences with both people and animals. But I had one unpleasant experience when someone didn't like that my dog was off-leash. That person was also allergic to me, because I accidentally entered "his land" (yeah yeah, sometimes you discover new places even in lower areas  ). The dog was just "icing on the cake" for him.
Why do I have him off-leash sometimes? Because I think he has the same right to free movement as us. If he's always on the "chain", he can't behave exactly as a dog likes (up down left right sniffing everywhere etc.). They just have a different pace from (most? ) of us. So, at least for me, an off-leash dog is no problem if not aggressive (to people or animals). I don't bite others (not in thoughts nor with words or fists) and my dog neither. They say: such dog as owner. Though I don't consider myself owner of my (haha I know) dog at all. Let everyone be their own master. I'm just "alpha male" in pack and he decided to follow me and obey my wishes
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| nevi14. 10. 2011 07:24:34 |
Cat is driven by instincts, humans should consciously control instincts. Animal killers don't.
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| Lothar14. 10. 2011 07:49:10 |
^^^^^
Should they? Maybe they're not intelligent enough. Or maybe they were some kind of beasts in a previous life and can't get out of their skin.
I know... a person expects a fellow human to have at least some similar values and opinions as himself. If not, something needs to be done, right? It's similar among animals too. For example wolves (since we're debating about dogs ) don't accept just anyone into their pack and even expel some. Or some don't like being in a certain pack anymore and starts his own...
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| VanSims14. 10. 2011 11:36:05 |
First @ursula100075: Unfortunately in Slovenia, where we have confusing laws, dog control in public places (i.e. everything that's not private) is scattered across several laws, not just the Animal Protection Act. It says there what you said.
Then we have the hunting law, which requires the dog to be under control in nature (no, Lothar, strictly legally it has no right to free movement) and for example the TNP law, which explicitly says it must be leashed in the TNP area. And more could be found. For example criminal code: causing general danger,...
So, if someone takes the law into their own hands, it's you dog owners who don't have dogs leashed or under control where they should be and thus cause danger to people and also to animals (if you pity them more than people).
On the other hand, defense against animals with pepper spray (which doesn't harm the animal at all) is completely legal here. It's true that in some e.g. European countries it's not.
Just for info: in alpine countries pepper spray for defense against animals is completely legal except in France, which has somewhat ambiguous legislation on this.
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| VanSims14. 10. 2011 14:06:53 |
***@turbo says***: A person who hates dogs and their owners (mostly), presents himself as a cynological expert and psychotherapist in one person.
Not my fault if you read my posts poorly, Thousand and first time I repeat: I don't hate dogs, nor owners (at least responsible ones). I like meeting friendly dogs and of course defend myself against rabid ones. You who don't like people probably do the same with people? Or do you just let the hostile ones be?
I've never considered myself a cynological expert nor psychotherapist. I learned a bit about dogs and their psychology on the internet, just as you could about people.
Anyway, you've kicked hard into the dark with all the rest. Show one of my posts where I lectured someone, gave advice beyond my knowledge. Paths I hike I describe (sometimes with a picture) and of course gladly give some info about it to someone. I never write in advance: I'm going somewhere, except if I'm looking for some info or advice on a planned path (hope that's allowed). And I know there are many people here with much richer mountaineering experience than me. Probably you too.
Also I don't hide under any other nickname but just VanSims (whoever is a bit smart could understand my post before yours as a joke).
The other is of course if you try to discredit me that way due to lack of arguments. Or maybe because you envy me for solving problems instead of running from them. I don't run from dogs like you from people. And if I happened to hate dogs is that a bigger sin than hating people? You're not the only one who thinks so but... God help where we've come to!
That and the fact that you accuse people of something off the top of your head (not the first time now) may have contributed to you not having good relations with people. I'm guessing, not claiming. But I'm not to blame if you suppressed that problem instead of solving it.
On the other hand I realize you're probably otherwise a good person, mountaineer with experience and knowledge at least as can be seen from your other posts. As I said, experiences probably richer than mine. Of course no one is perfect and everyone has their problems to face, not run from them.
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| turbo14. 10. 2011 18:07:03 |
@Vansims
You just don't read carefully and between the lines.
If you read carefully, you would... but waste of words, because you won't understand. Because for eleven pages of this thread you're chasing the same thing.
My writing "flew" to various posts of various contributors. Where you find yourself is your problem.
Life is beautiful. Also in the mountains. Especially there. I have enough company everywhere, good company. What good, excellent. Although by nature I'm a grumpy loner and feel, at least feelings are such, most satisfied in mountains when I drag myself alone into some wilderness. And far from running from people. Because life is too short, I simply can't waste any minute with someone who doesn't "click" with me. Among others, those who constantly "chase" the same thing and can't grasp that there's another view on the matter don't "click". And also those don't "click" who as soon as they leave the "safe" environment of their home see potential danger in everything and, just like that - just in case, set off from home with pepper spray.
Enough. It started with the question where to nicely go with your four-legged friend. And after some constructive suggestions, some VanSims appeared and took the debate completely in another direction. And unfortunately I bit and added mine in that other direction too. And others. It would be nice if it ends with some suggestions for outings with four-legged ones, maybe with some winter idea.
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| Enka14. 10. 2011 20:42:40 |
MajaO, go to Čaven from the tunnels via Srednječavenska path over Mala gora. We didn't meet anyone on that path (on the direct one we returned on, quite a few - and rocks roll on the direct one, which probably sometimes happens even to your doggies).
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| ljubitelj gora14. 10. 2011 21:43:14 |
I also like animals and have thought about taking a German Shepherd mix into the company. At home we have a farm and many animals.
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| VanSims14. 10. 2011 23:51:09 |
***Turbo said:***And yes, I also go to nature for peace, pleasure, recreation... and that I withdrew to my own, that is off-paths, into solitude, was not due to dogs and/or similar. People were those who... I won't say what.
That was your statement! From it I concluded that you withdrew from people into off-paths and thus (didn't) solve your problem. I won't run from anyone anywhere!
Is there another view? A view that implies you can impose on people something they don't want, fear it, it disgusts them, they don't like it or simply want peace? Sorry if I'm rude now: such a view is perverted and primitive for me!
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| Kozorog15. 10. 2011 00:15:01 |
ljubitelj gora.. good idea but you won't be able to take him with you to the mountains.. via ferratas will be hard...
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| gmajna15. 10. 2011 00:57:32 |
Two dog snapshots, so you don't argue endlessly who is smarter and who is right.
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| hočo15. 10. 2011 14:34:43 |
i often hike in hills with my labrador, e.g. also storzic, grintovec, vrtaca, and haven't had any bad experience yet, even when she took a sandwich from a hiker on top of storzic 
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| serajko18. 10. 2011 22:32:19 |
@majao
Last time I asked about paw care. Thanks also for the answer on Zs. Everything was related to this little rascal here
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| VanSims19. 10. 2011 10:48:28 |
One question: aren't those dogs that have hair like this over their eyes all squinty?
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