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Grintovec

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Zebdi19. 12. 2011 15:22:17
Well yeah, if avalanches rumble, you risk your life anyway - even if you have all gear. Otherwise ARSO for KSA currently has 1st degree avalanche danger - means nothing serious should happen in principle. I say in principle, so best check conditions on site mežikanje
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JusAvgustin19. 12. 2011 15:41:21
I fully agree with colleague Zbdijem. You go and if you judge it's dangerous, just turn back... No pile of rocks is worth your life...
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pikec119. 12. 2011 16:29:45
Only the candles hanging from the walls broke. No avalanches were heard anywhere. For me it was fully safe to Kok.saddle, further I don't know. If he decided for the summit he already knew or was sure it's safe.
Regards Grega
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Mali Gobar19. 12. 2011 21:36:30
Extremist?
The day before departure I thoroughly checked all available data around this ascent. I have lots of opportunities for that due to my job. For KSA indeed 1st degree was announced, but on paper it can be very deceptive, right? Grintovec I visited three times last year in winter, I think my posts are still visible somewhere in this thread. I go to mountains in all seasons since the age of 6, after 30 years I'm still here, so I'm not exactly a beginner at these things, but for sure - if I even suspect something's not right, I turn back. I have and will probably again. And would this time too, but conditions were ideal and far from any sliding. Regarding my gear, for such "extremisms" as some call them, I always have all with me, which Grega saw too if my word is not enough. And you won't believe it, I know how to use it too.

I myself, except in some really excessive cases, have never judged anyone's decision - what's extreme to me may be normal to someone else - and vice versa. Juš nicely summed up what I think too (and he goes to mountains with piglet like me, so meets all criteria) - but I think I nowhere wrote that the ascent is suitable for everyone. No. Not at all. Since I know here at least some who know this ascent wasn't anything special, all others who see it at least as Eiger ascent can keep their opinion and consider me an extremist. Nothing new, democracy allows that too.

If I have enlightened someone's horizon and they will now sleep easier with the conscience that extremism is a very relative thing, even better.

Extremely nice greeting until next extremism,

Jure jezik
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Mercus19. 12. 2011 22:07:40
Congratulations on the ascent, the day was super, snow in KSA solid, only when we looked up the wind must have blown hard because the mountains were at moments totally... whitevelik nasmeh

We went from Razpotje, made a track to Okrešlj and a bit higher and must say, the most dangerous thing in KSA is walking on the LD road...

Sunday drivers, when will you learn not to drive on ice?zmeden
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Mali Gobar19. 12. 2011 22:21:31
The wind blew like a h***, at the summit Suunto showed -12, so really no joke. But what can you do when the day was so nice, Mercus ... Around the road in LD better not, other side in KB no better ... jezen
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jax19. 12. 2011 23:38:50
Sunday drivers, when will you learn not to drive on ice?

Well, a bit elevated already mežikanje
In my opinion no one drove there without a driving license. But that there is some special B category, haven't heard. Ice is a problem and I think no need to be a total idiot for the car to skid.
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Mercus20. 12. 2011 02:26:13
I wouldn't count myself among the elevated, really not one of those elitist alpinists who criticize you loud enough that everyone hears. When some crazy alpinist woman tells you you're "city licker" because you turn below Mrzla gora due to bad conditions...

OK, could write much about that, but don't misunderstand me, didn't mean those drivers who go somewhere and it just skids. It happens, I've been thrown off the road a couple times too, on motorbike though, same thing.

I talk about people who come with their tuned rear-wheel BMWs, think they'll drive to the turnaround mid-winter, road not plowed, ice, snow, sure go, you've been to LD before.

I spend lots of time here and don't even remember all cases when I helped people get car back on road. Drove past three closed road signs and still pushed on.

By the way, special B category is B+Evelik nasmeh
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JusAvgustin20. 12. 2011 17:17:53
(Mali Gobar) you, my little pig and your little sow could meet sometime, what do you say? so there'll be many little piglets and they'll rule the forum...velik nasmehnasmehcoolmežikanje
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Klemen Purkart20. 12. 2011 18:00:12
I had to register properly on the portal to comment this. With Jure (Mali Gobar) we do lots of ascents and trips together. I think ... or know, he's not a person who flies headlessly and rushes at any cost. With him I go anywhere without hesitation and trust him ... he has a limit, like I do, and it's really not hard for us to turn back. Every ascent is its own story and it's a pity if the novel ends too soon. If he was at the summit, then it was safe (safe is relative).

Ah, Jure, I already thought I was that "piglet" who goes with you to the mountains, me!? nasmeh
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JusAvgustin20. 12. 2011 18:11:57
but why are you defending him or however you're defending himzmeden for a mature and responsible person it's normal to turn back if conditions don't allow continuation and nothing's wrong with that... let most on the forum imprint this in memory forever. Quote: he has a limit, just like I do, and it's really not hard for us to turn back... E=mc²: everything is relative, what's inconceivable for one is routine for another nasmeh
wait, is it a piglet or a sow, what now? Pipi is NOT gay!eek
A nice and well-built young boar is looking for a sow for joint socializing...1
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Klemen Purkart20. 12. 2011 18:16:03
I'm not even defending him, I just commented ... if I think well it's really a sow, me nasmeh
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Mali Gobar21. 12. 2011 00:07:30
Klemen, thanks, I know who I can always count on. That's the whole point.

Juš, of course it's a sow, her name is Rosalie and she's enthusiastic about all kinds of high mountain adventures velik nasmeh. You definitely have to meet Pipi, then mountain pigs will rule our mountains cool, let alone the forum nasmeh
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potepinka21. 12. 2011 08:43:05
…I already once wrote that it's fun to read »pig adventures«… I see it'll be even more interesting.velik nasmeh
It's true they both have, besides pigs, each »their own« Klemen. We'll really have to fear this gang. velik nasmeh
Enjoy, and share more with us. nasmeh
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sla21. 12. 2011 09:12:21
Juš, your piglet is very irresponsible - no crampons!!!! I'd leave him only for summer ascents.
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Mali Gobar21. 12. 2011 09:30:17
Sla, this subspecies of domestic pig aka mountain piglet (prasetus alpinus) has innate downward sharpened hooves from birth that serve as crampons, so fear is completely unnecessary.

Potepinka, thanks, extremely nice greeting to you too, see you somewhere 'up there'.
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JusAvgustin21. 12. 2011 11:15:35
haha, pipi always rubs his nose anyway, so he has almost no contact, if he has it then he gets four frostnips on hooves...
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sla21. 12. 2011 12:23:59
That's an excuse, just let him walk! velik nasmeh
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anonimni21. 12. 2011 15:44:21
Were you over the Roof? Buddy and I are thinking of going next week, though smaller precipitation is forecast for Saturday... In principle probably no problem, with all gear and a certain measure of caution?

This winter I haven't yet been in the mountains, except about a month ago on Turski and Brana, but even that was just icy snowfields on the shady side and a drifted path (from Okrešelj), and of course quite icy Turski gully. Now it seems quite a bit more snowy... On Grintovec I've been twice in summer, but never in winter yet.
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Mali Gobar21. 12. 2011 18:24:07
Grintovec in winter is something completely different from summer. First you need to know it's quite demanding fitness-wise - lower cable car station at 800m a.s.l., meaning 1800m ascent on the shortest route. You've been up in summer, so you know. Now add cold, snow and track not knee-friendly, especially if icy. Adding crampons spices it up more, but can't go without. Winter path to Kokrško sedlo hides a major danger to take seriously - high slip and avalanche risk just below saddle. Best in winter to stick fully to the right side, less exposed path to saddle. Track there too, visible if not drifted.

Then second part, somewhat more pleasant for walking (at least for me), but three spots needing much attention and ice axe knowledge. First: crossing under walls few hundred meters after junction sign to Skuta or Grintovec. Slip here = fall into basin below, no rescue. Second similar danger at crossing to Ovnov čr and Grintovec roof. Flatter there, but leads straight to abyss below. Ice sure during your planned trip, advise much caution. Roof path basically not demanding (except fatigue, which is usually very present here). But precisely here accidents have happened in the past due to slips - most choose crampons-poles combo for easier walking, which is true, but in case of slip with pole you can't do much. Better ice axe, in this case legs take most of the work and effort is somewhat greater. Depends on conditions and your own knowledge what you will do. On descent slip risk still present, additional trouble is possible loss of orientation in poor visibility, common on roof. Need to stick to left side, but not too much, because winter cornices on the very edge can collapse quickly.

Can't advise you either to go or to stay down. My personal opinion is that Grintovec perhaps isn't the best winter choice if neither of you has much experience and hasn't been up here yet. On the other hand it's definitely one of the nicest winter tours in KSA, worth doing under certain conditions. Decision is yours, decide by your own judgment.

If some more experienced colleagues perhaps add something (Janez, Juš, ...) or correct me somewhere, all the better.

Safe steps, wherever you go.

Jure
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