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Grintovec

PzS11. 05. 2013 00:40:59

There's nothing more to write here. Path dry, except snow on the scree under Kokrsko. No issues.

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PV14. 05. 2013 14:58:23

How's the road to Suhadolnik? Can I take the wife's car? ;-) ;-);-)

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knap422714. 05. 2013 15:54:06

The road is normally drivable and there will be no issues with it, but what will happen with the wife, time will tell velik nasmeh

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PV14. 05. 2013 15:55:46

Thanks

Močerad14. 05. 2013 20:53:25

I can confirm what PzS wrote. The path from Kamniška Bistrica (via Streha) is passable without winter gear. We cross only a few snow patches (first under Kokrsko saddle and then a few short ones towards the top).

The gentleman who climbed from Suhadolnik confirmed that conditions should be similar there too (mostly dry, passable in summer gear).

PV15. 05. 2013 14:07:32

Today on Grintovec. I cheat a bit at the start and don't start from the parking under Suhadolnik, but drive another almost 2 km further and park in the clearing, about 100 m before the junction "via Taško/old path".

Up via Taško to Cojzova hut and then via Streha to the top. Back the same way, just to the start via the Old path.

First about the weather... since I watch it every day from home I know that if a cloud sticks to its top (same as Kočna) in the morning, it can stay there more or less all day... and that's how it was today too mrk pogled

. But since I was hyped to go up in the morning, I went anyway... mostly no special views, except really minimal short glimpses, but anyway... it wasn't for enjoyment, but the tour is quite good for fitness... and Grintovec is Grintovec... it's the King of KSA nasmeh

. Anyway, from Kokrsko saddle onwards wind, for a while via Streha it looked like no fog on top, but as soon as I arrived up, "darkness" formed, which accompanied me back almost to Cojzova hut. And wind on top, cold... yeah, I committed a rarely done "sin" and poured half a beer away... it didn't even taste in that cold... eek

.

About the path... going up (via Taško) snow only a bit below the hut and there really no issues and no danger... even if slip, due to small slope wouldn't go anywhere. Otherwise path to saddle ok. Further on soon from Grintovec/Skuta junction need to go multiple times, shorter or longer, over snow (though on some smaller sections can avoid it). No special dangers here either, since walking almost flat. But as soon as the steep part on Streha path starts, first snow patch where slip wouldn't be without consequences anymore... higher up need to cross short snow patches another two times, where slope is quite steep and slip could be nasty... also right below the summit still snow to cross... snow was quite hard (true above no sun that would surely soften it and walking on snow would be much more unpleasant) and with increased caution could cross even without winter gear...

As said before, back via old path, no special features except in lower part when reach the torrent... it's still quite snowed up well into the valley... true, no special steepness there and thus no big danger.. probably no avalanches anymore. For me that snow nicely spiced the descent with "skiing on soles" test... Super!!!! nasmeh

But I'd like to comment here on the assessment of current conditions given by PzS on 11.5. (quote: Path dry, except snow on scree under Kokrsko. No issues) and somehow confirmed by Močerad on 14.5., who actually confirms what PzS wrote, though mentions smaller snow patches also via Streha.

Based on my today's observation this description is completely unrealistic and misleading, since from Cojzova hut onwards need to cross snow several times where increased caution is needed. I had no issues, but many could... Grintovec via Streha is a path that requires some fitness, technically not demanding and thus inviting for many...

Therefore I think PzS's description of conditions is very inappropriate for this portal where many gather info before their hikes. If you can't realistically assess the situation, don't "sell" it to others... Yeah, accident can happen and then what??? Food for thought. This really annoys me a bit!!!

Good luck.

Already in the morning the view up from the starting point did not promise nice weather.

Even from Kokrsko sedlo towards Grintovec and Kočni it was rather so-so....

.... down to the valley and towards Strožič pure endless blue.... that white little girl up right already belongs to Kočni.

Soon after the Grintovec/Skuta junction on the path over Streha we come to a quite long snowfield, which is quite steep at the end.

Even higher one still has to cross snow... the picture shows just one such example..

Even just below the summit one has to walk on snow for quite a while... and slipping wouldn't be good here either.

However the path over Streha promised something to see from the summit too... Kalški greben...

At the summit unfortunately like this....

Even on the return fog settled on Streha several times like this.

This snowfield on the section of the old path to Kokrsko sedlo was fun for me, but it could cause some trouble for others... so for now it's better up and down via Taško.

And as at the start, the peak was shrouded in fog also upon return to the starting point...

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Močerad15. 05. 2013 21:22:54

Congratulations on your ascent. I only wrote what you found out and tested yourself - that the path was passable without winter gear. The snow patch on picture 5 could really be problematic for someone (though it didn't seem so to me).. On the path over streha, the two snow patches you mentioned didn't seem problematic at all to me (or I even avoided them), so I didn't mention them. Same for snow on and just below the summit. I know you didn't mention me directly, but still I think my description was realistic.

Well, good that yours is now available too - now conditions on the whole path are recorded realistically, right?

I'm actually grateful to PzS for the info, which didn't seem very misleading to me (otherwise I would have mentioned it).

Best regards.

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lakkon15. 05. 2013 23:35:50

PV,

thanks for this really detailed description. I'm on your side in this story. Precisely based on such assessment less experienced hikers can help themselves. Certainly not on dry, generalized info obviously meant for the more experienced, forgetting about others. I myself once got wrong info from a hiker who told me no snow up the path (Menina planina). But there was quite some in the upper part, icy in places and caution needed. I think it would be good for certain hikes: to give realistic assessment of current conditions for average hiker or say nothing.

neph16. 05. 2013 13:21:43

Lakkon, no offense, but how can you be on anyone's side if you weren't on Grintovec these days? If you were, ignore my remark.

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Becar16. 05. 2013 14:13:54

Neph, you can already see from the pictures that the path is definitely not dry, as someone wrote. Do you think otherwise? nasmeh

Without crampons there below the summit I wouldn't go. If the path is DRY, for me that means exactly that, with normal footwear.

Branee16. 05. 2013 14:58:03

Come on, don't complicate it, Grintovec over the roof is easy even in much more wintry "situations" than these two "patches" of snow on the path.... Becar, with regular footwear you have no business in high mountains, I think that's understandable.. The clearest thing is that if you see the situation is "too much" for you, turn back. Top alpinists turn back, so if you/me or someone else does, no crown will fall from his head.

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neph16. 05. 2013 14:58:18

I walked the path on 14.05 and there was no need for winter gear, I avoided most snowfields. So you are right - I think otherwise. Actually there are partially critical snowfields at the start of the "roof" and there, if climbing directly up them (I practically avoided them), winter gear might come into consideration.

I don't intend to "argue" about the mentioned topic, but objectively speaking the path at least on the date of my ascent wasn't "dangerous" in case of not using winter gear. If the snow wasn't strongly south-facing, the story could be different.

I really don't see reasons why from simple personal impressions on the path and description of conditions, which are useful to many, to make such a problem. There were about 10 people at the top that day and no one used winter gear - even in casual conversations we agreed that the path is nicely passable without it. Many such situations as this one in the "Grintovec" thread deter people from further collaboration on the forum. And by the way, I count myself among hikers who strongly care for their own safety, which shows both in theory and practice, and I would never spread complete disinformation on the forum thereby indirectly putting anyone in danger.

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Becar16. 05. 2013 16:00:54

Branee, some etiquette wouldn't hurt in your statements. Anyway, you didn't surprise me, since you already wisecracked about Hanz's to Mojstrovka that it's a kindergarten.
Just this week I borrowed the newly published guide titled Kamniška Bistrica. In it the author talks about a large number of fatal accidents on Grintovec roof due to underestimating in snow time. In this description sadly I see people of such character as yours.
God forbid that a beginner takes your statements and careless advice seriously. Then I wish you to feel part of the responsibility too. Unfortunately such people usually aren't touched by it.

Overall I already told you that you are simply "too good" for Slovenian mountains. Or just bluffing because I haven't yet seen or heard such comments from any serious experienced hikers.

Ah and one more thing, if judging by the pictures the path is dry, then someone here is crazy. But I think I'm not the one.

bagi16. 05. 2013 17:04:21

Attaching pics of yesterday's path to Grintovec from Kamniška Bistrica direction. Everyone judge for themselves if able or not to do this ascent in current conditions. 90% of path is dry. From saddle to top avoid steep snowfields, with others you risk no more than a butt fall. Different for approach to hut where path on open part mostly under snow, slope too steep for ascent without winter gear. Of course snow can mostly be avoided by scratching on scree or pushing through bushes, some steep tongues still need crossing. Definitely path difficulty now greater than summer. Ahh ... road to cable car drivable without issues if ignore traffic signs, hut closed.

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Branee17. 05. 2013 08:05:28

Becar, why mention etiquette? What did I write like that?
You borrowed it, I see; you didn't even read well nor know in what situations and why accidents happened. Those are my favorites who read the title and think they know everything about everything.
Comparison with rookies who, without salt and training, went to test limits—I don't go to that level.

What touches me and what not is my business. But I can tell you something: those who write the most up here are usually those who have the least to show.
Let your actions represent you, not words and bickering on forums. In the sense of which side is right and which wrong.

Any serious mountaineer can tell you that the winter approach in "right conditions" over the roof isn't hard. The word "hard" can have different "weight"; it depends on the individual, his abilities, knowledge, etc.

Which "serious" mountaineer do you personally know? The circle of people with whom I associate in the mountains is really narrow; I don't blame you for anything velik nasmeh

.

The point of the whole thing is that every description is subjective and taking someone's side based on pictures is really...

PS: My intent isn't arguing up here mežikanje

Becar17. 05. 2013 09:03:19

Brane, exactly what you are talking about is considered among responsible mountaineers and in mountaineering literature as a wrong assessment of conditions. Namely, the Grintovec roof really is not among the harder winter ascents, but accidents happened precisely because of that fact—underestimating that anyone can go up with any gear in all seasons. A very similar situation is in the gully under Brana. In both cases, the slopes funnel into at least a 100-meter drop. The slope on the roof is underestimated and therefore just right for a slip in the case of frozen snow and walking without crampons.

Judging by the pictures of the latest arrivals, there is no more snow across the entire roof. However, in the case of a slip on snow without crampons and ice axe, someone could still get badly injured. And even if 10 went across without crampons, the 11th can slip.

There was also talk about the southern snow. OK, they were lucky, but what if it had been frozen? You say you would turn back (whether it is true or not, I don't know), but what if it tempted someone and they went on? Isn't it better to have crampons with you just in case?

User PV also wrote something about this above; he went across the roof on 15.5.13 and was annoyed at some light-minded comments up here.

If your intent is not arguing, as you say, then next time be a bit more careful with your word choice.

P.S.: If you are asking, I personally know at least some very responsible and older mountaineers who would surely agree with what I wrote, as I myself learned a lot from them. Also, whom to listen to and whom not. mežikanje

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Branee17. 05. 2013 09:29:09

Becar, what am I writing about? I am writing about people who have neither knowledge nor gear, but overestimate themselves. That's what I am writing about. I don't mention the conditions in which some "fly" to the summits.

It is also true that you can injure yourself on much easier routes than the ascent to the Grintovec summit.

bdolmovi17. 05. 2013 09:40:39

In winter conditions, the ascent over Dolce to the summit has always been and will always be dangerous. Any underestimating on this terrain leads to death; I saw it with my own eyes a few years ago, and that at extremely good weather. The mountaineer was not an average hiker but a very good runner with excellent fitness; sadly, accident never rests. My humble opinion, which I always adhere to, is caution and safety first, because nature is merciless. Winter gear must be in the backpack until the last big snow patch melts, since after two or three meters of the icy roof you can no longer stop. All opinions on this portal can be very positive, as we can all learn something from them; man learns throughout life. Personally, I am happy for every comment on this portal; if it is positively oriented, it is to the benefit of us all. May there always be a safe step on your path, good luck.

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SamoK19. 05. 2013 00:46:56

There is so little snow on the roof that there is no danger at all.

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serznoz9. 06. 2013 22:55:41

I see that there is not much interest here for Grintovec, and yesterday only two of us were up there. The approach is without issues, the upper 300 m of snow cannot be avoided, on the summit there is 1 meter. Since it is sinking in, I recommend gaiters; other safety gear is not needed. For a better view, we had to get up very early.