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Kokrska and Jezerska Kočna

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JusAvgustin9. 02. 2011 08:04:57
I see that you have helmets built in as standardjezen
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benjamin79. 02. 2011 09:18:22
Ha, ha, Juš, you're right! But on the other hand, I understand Sabina and Tona too. They're not role models for many young people, but as experienced mountaineers they know what that clambering is for... That they are locals who know the conditions in the mountains from childhood onwards is an extra plus for them. It's hard to be wise now and say that the only salvific climbing is the one that possibly started somewhere in an urban block, where rich parents bought all the best gear (preferably from the same brands, now we attack all couloirs, notches and other virgin walls, so we can happily announce to the public which approach we picked... The truth is always somewhere in between. Of course I agree that the helmet is basic, but I'm also not a fan of general spitting on those who enjoy it without one too. Common sense is more important, and if it's in place, it often saves more than some gear that we possibly don't even know how to use properly. A telling example is when last weekend (I think Janez) saw a mountaineer on Triglav without crampons and ice axe, but with skilled technique he coped with the conditions even better than some with full gear. Of course it can be different next time, but... Above all, let's be responsible towards life and think three times before judging.
Maybe just my example. I too was on January 20th (years ago) - directly from the bivouac towards the summit - on Kočna. Likewise years ago I literally soloed (just 4-point crampons and helmet, but without ice axes) directly from Vršič to Mala Mojstrovka. I followed a group of young climbers who then went directly into the iced-up wall, I, almost naked and barefoot, followed a middle-aged couple more to the right. But we too soon encountered an icy slab hidden under a thin layer of powder. The man managed it, but she stopped, got scared of the ice, she was on the verge of tears. But he urged her, begged her to step forward... That "torment" lasted several minutes. Then my heart started pounding too. I got scared and turned back from the exposed ledge to a slightly more comfortable snowfield. I pondered, but the next moment I searchedmrk pogled for a snowier passage directly towards the summit. I found it a bit further right and very slowly literally rode along the wind-blown ridge to the top. The couple was already there on the summit, who had stopped earlier. I think they were quite happy. She still a bit under the impression of the icy slab, but at least outwardly more cheerful too. Then I got an interesting, certainly juicy comment: "I've never understood kamikazes. They knew they would die, but still wore helmets...". Of course it was justified aimed at my lacking gear, but I still thought: "What good is all that gear to him when he's literally forcing his wife onto the knife edge..." What or when is the right measure? Life teaches us many turnarounds, returns back. Which are really our maturations. And I believe that Sabina and Tone are very mature mountaineers. I realize that I should have turned back then too. But later I luckily did it several times. So, let's not conquer summits at any cost! Man is definitely a very limited being. Of course something (N) will always drive us higher...

And what do I do today? In winter I avoid harder routes, but instead go to Snežnik, Smrekovec, Velika planina, scenic Stegovnik, Goli vrh, maybe also to pilgrim Viševnik, Deblo peč or Zasavska Sveta gora, in summer higher up... Of course obligatorily to mass locations at times when there are no people there. Like also in summer to Triglav to overnight (or up at night, wink at the sunrise), then down when there are still no processions. And of course I wear a helmet. And safety kit. Helmet thus for both scrambling, cycling and piste skiing.

Juš, no hard feelings, your routes are worthy of all respect, just our views are and will always be a bit different - unique. And I think that's quite right. mežikanje Above all, let's protect our lives as well as the lives of our loved ones. nasmeh
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JusAvgustin9. 02. 2011 09:35:14
This post everyone on this portal should read...nasmeh diversity makes us what we are...!
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benjamin79. 02. 2011 10:11:51
Maybe just this. Today I am certainly more (than on Kočna and Mala Mojstrovka) proud of yesterday's Snežnik, which was given to us together with my wife, and the outing last Monday when I solitarily wandered around Velika planina, with a sea of fog below... Pure almost holy silence. Unforgettable! And I admit, with the years my fear grows too, but it barely limits my experiences of all the beautiful (in the mountains). It seems to me more and more that it only deepens the relationship to (N)nature.nasmeh
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benjamin79. 02. 2011 10:16:37
Oops, I'm over-perfect. Correctly: ..certainly... and of course Mala Mojstrovka with a capital...

Sabina, Tone, 100jan, Juš, Janez... I wish you many more beautiful experiences in the mountains! Good luck.nasmeh
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tonek79. 02. 2011 10:20:47
just my comment on the above correct findings,.......I consider myself almost a professional mountaineer, since for 50 years I live and move more or less in steepness and it's quite familiar to me, I model myself mainly on chamois and ibex(where chamois goes you can still get without rope, where ibex goes without climbing gear you don't go)so I use gear by inspiration,one mission is also to help other mountaineers in trouble, so I'm only satisfied when I see a skilled mountaineer in action and don't judge how he looks, since I know he'll take care of himself and he'll be satisfied too.contribution is just assessment of conditions which you best show with a picture, since people are different and that's right, see you in the hills
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ljubitelj gora9. 02. 2011 10:42:11
@benjamin7

I also don't ram my head through an ice wall in winter, I stay on easy paths, in summer it will be nice, sunny, warm, safe and I'll go higher. I don't like reading such long comments, because someone based on their own smarts salts wisdom to another and thereby endangers others, saying the path is safe, suitable for every mountaineer etc. Especially this JusAvgustin and similar, they can handle some tours others can't....and most beginners get the impression, if he got to the top with a little snack I'll do it too.
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benjamin79. 02. 2011 10:54:18
Maybe it's time to tell a bit more about myself, and at the same time change my username and not hide behind "benjamin7". So I am Boštjan Medved Karničar (henceforth Boštjan MK) Now Tonek7 has probably recognized me too.velik nasmeh I've been scrambling and hill walking for 34 years, otherwise I come from the area around Litija, the village of Mamolj.
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JusAvgustin9. 02. 2011 11:03:06
Ljubitelj Gora: As usual you've completely misinterpreted what we want to say! In every single post that "teli" and similar "teli" write, we provide rating and approximate difficulty, and for taste also photos... so that a reasonable person adjusts the tour to their knowledge and abilities, and of course gear. That most beginners get the impression that you get to every summit with a little snack has grown only on your lawn, I'm sure a beginner (alone) won't venture somewhere just because JusAvgustin and "others" wrote that the tour is pure 10 with elements of alpinism... just to prove to others that he can do it too.
The portal is full of tours that we do and describe new paths, each one states difficulty so I doubt a beginner will choose sharp Martuljek or another spire! If someone has dilemmas there's still ZS and can discuss there further. From easy marked trail, to alpinistic ascents up to difficulty max III+/IV, anything more belongs to AO forums! And also: nobody salts wisdom to anyone, we just talk, like now, exchange opinions and experiences, share advice. Believe me, we're not here to endanger others by giving false ratings and difficulties. We advise to the best of our abilities and experiences. Everyone on this portal is equal, no one is general, no one is more than the other. That "teli" and so on I don't know what, that's just a matter of perception and interpretation. There are no medals and special merits here. Here we are and the mountains. Period. It's easy to be general when the war is over...
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tomiš9. 02. 2011 20:08:46
Best indeed not to ask anything more, because I don't get an answer anyway!
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tomiš9. 02. 2011 20:08:46
Best indeed not to ask anything more, because I don't get an answer anyway!
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100jan10. 02. 2011 18:51:54
The guy with the built-in helmet who did this nice and strenuous tour with a companion, was awarded the GRZS gold badge and probably knows how and where to go in the mountains. Since in winter among rare entries on remote summits I often come across his, I just admiringly congratulate him.
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matejam9. 03. 2011 15:55:58
Hello!

Has anyone been to Kočna from Kokrsko sedlo direction in the last days and can tell me the snow condition - does it sink or is it possible to advance with crampons and ice axe?

Thanks in advance for possible answer and safe steps to all!

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urarrr9. 03. 2011 17:40:57
Kočna
On 5.3 we were on Grintavec. In the afternoon we wanted to go to Skuta too. We turned back because it was sinking over the knees. All soaked. As I looked it seemed ok towards Kočna. But mandatory in early morning hours. Below you have video of that day. Kočna is quite filmed...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GGfkrWDl0U . That would
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matejam10. 03. 2011 08:30:26
Great, Matej, thanks!

Anyway, we met on Grintovcu, remember? mežikanje

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tomko10. 05. 2011 17:20:42
Started on a beautiful morning and hurried towards Kočna. On the lower Dolči admired chamois and marmots. Then up the scree with a lump in my throat. From all sides rocks were flying down, not pebbles but stones and boulders. So at the top of the scree for safety I turned back and then on Dolči turned via Ovnov čir to Cojzova koča. Despite the unconquered summit, nice tour. Met no one, but saw two on Grintovec.
Dolški marmot pup1
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velkavrh10. 05. 2011 17:54:28
Extremely unusual, I've been here many times but never experienced that. Anyway right at the start of scree cross scree to bivouac and then to both Kočnas. Obviously you took right path under the wall to ridge between Kočna and Grintavec then left to both Kočnas or right to Grintavec. I extremely like grassy Dolci. Best is bivouac where I'd stay a day or so.
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tomko10. 05. 2011 18:13:30
Went left over scree to bivouac but on last scree you see how it flies down. Wasn't flying only here. Heard rumbling also under Kalška gora. Can see on picture what rock fell down. Not today but rumbling everywhere.eek
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Bojan_A10. 05. 2011 19:13:29
I had completely similar experience as tomko. Chamois shot at me too: http://bojanambrozic.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/kokrska-in-jezerska-kocna-ter-grintovec/
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Leny20. 06. 2011 20:25:38
On Wednesday I plan to go via Kremžarjeva to Jezerska Kočna. Has anyone been up there in the last few days? What are the conditions? Is there still any snow? Any info welcome. Thanks.
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