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| pikica119. 02. 2013 09:32:06 |
Fine, yes, they'll start carrying hard, not broken, from the mountains if you keep demanding a fine for mountain rescue intervention.
I hope the guy recovers soon, I wish him all the best. Next time it could be one of us.
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| Zebdi19. 02. 2013 10:47:56 |
pikica1, I sure agree that issuing fines everywhere is not productive, but there is really no need to tolerate every stupidity. If someone consciously rushes into danger without proper gear, then they should also pay the fine. If drunk you cause a car accident, no one pats you on the shoulder and says it can happen to anyone?
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| jani bele19. 02. 2013 12:04:48 |
After checking various information additionally, the injured had crampons on his boots at the slip. During the slide he lost one, the other was removed before rescuers arrived.
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| risto19. 02. 2013 13:03:51 |
Karletttto!
He has already got the fine. More than the fine is
such a fall a lesson no one wishes.
Then still fine!! ??? Oh boy, what
people!
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| jedriličar19. 02. 2013 13:52:04 |
And where was his ice axe? Did he lose it too or didn't he even have it with him? Basic rule of winter ascents says if you put on crampons, conditions are such that you need ice axe, not trekking poles .... Of course, very sorry the guy slipped and got hurt, but little basic knowledge and lots can be avoided. One of them is without ice axe you can't stop a fall ... And stopping needs practicing, because once you start down slope, if not trained, no escape ...That's it, safe in hills and lp
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| Daaam19. 02. 2013 14:34:52 |
I just don't see a reason why now everyone should philosophize around this accident—what was and wasn't, and how guilty or not..
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| jedriličar19. 02. 2013 14:58:17 |
@Daaam: it's not about philosophizing, but about drawing lessons from every accident. E.g., a guy going on such ascents in winter conditions, unequipped and inexperienced, [is] dangerous not just [to] himself but [to] others. What if on [the] slope before [the] rock jump he took someone else [with him]? Could [have] take[n] a fully equipped [and] prepared guy, but [when] someone at 50-60 km/h hits you, no chance [to get off] lightly... Just about that[, ]such types endanger others. If [they endangered] only themselves, [I] don't care, but danger to all [who were] there then.
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| pikica119. 02. 2013 15:16:18 |
@jedriličar eh "don't care about him at all" if so then shut up.
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| jedriličar19. 02. 2013 15:22:05 |
@pikica1: be nice and don't pull words out of context, quote [the] whole sentence then. [T]his changes [the] meaning. [A]nd if [there's] something wrong in what I wrote, [feel free to] deny or prove [the] opposite. lp
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| Zebdi19. 02. 2013 15:24:27 |
pikica1, didn't quite get him, eh? jedriličar wrote spot on - such people endanger not just [themselves] but all others - from random passersby to rescuers. [Let] jedriličar care for [himself], but they with [their] actions endanger [the] rest? [Is that] fair?
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| Daaam19. 02. 2013 15:32:33 |
Of course it's right to learn from every accident. It just gets on my nerves because lately every accident here on the forum we "chew over" at length and crosswise, philosophize what and where went wrong, possibly make quick and wrong conclusions and that's it.. For me only participants and rescuers in action (Jani Bele..etc) are authoritative. Often data on forums and newspaper articles inaccurate/misleading, so we can't learn much from it. I think rescue ops on GRS site well presented and those described more broadly give cause or where mountaineer/hiker/alpinist mistake was...
It was not my intention to be indifferent to accidents.
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| stasa_t19. 02. 2013 16:14:28 |
Some glimpses from Nanos this morning... fairy tale
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| jedriličar19. 02. 2013 16:24:27 |
Please read the message at http://www.grzs.si/?MenuID=1&NewsID=946
Jani Bele says: If there's snow, it really doesn't matter whether the mountain is called Triglav or Nanos.... etc
and at the end of the quote: During the rescue, quite a few hikers passed by the rescuers heading up or down the valley. More than half were totally unequipped, those superguys are anyway a story in themselves...
Enough for the wise...
Lp
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| risto19. 02. 2013 17:42:52 |
I don't know why we shouldn't "chew" on it and who sets the measure.
Authoritative? We're not judging! We're expressing our opinions. The data are real; length of the slip,
terrain and also happy ending for both rescuers and the victim. That's what I'm chewing on. But it's behind us. Why? Because he survived! Will he face a penalty?!
Slips are probably the most common cause of accidents.
Will he face a penalty? That's close to the thinking:
why do they have to push up there then WE pay. Crazy
is the one who goes... Or do insurance companies and other profit seekers encourage it???
The problem of all forums is anonymity, which is
like a carnival mask.
And even if there is no snow, it doesn't matter if
it's a mountain .....
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| pikica119. 02. 2013 18:35:42 |
It also writes that a slip can happen despite good gear, which the hiker obviously had. Now nailing him to the cross and writing how he endangered all around because he couldn't stop is a bit meme. He didn't slide down the slope on purpose; something went wrong and slipped him. Supergars have no connection.
Otherwise I'm not loving nor smart enough to think nothing can happen to me in the mountains.
Accidents happened and will happen, no one is vaccinated against them or some are, I don't know. You write already like nothing can happen to you.
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| jedriličar19. 02. 2013 19:01:16 |
1. Accidents can naturally happen to anyone, nobody is vaccinated from them.
2. Accidents are prevented by having and proper use of suitable gear (in winter: winter gear, ice axe, crampons), above all training (practicing) certain elements of gear use (ice axe arrest, walking with crampons etc.).
3. I didn't notice isko 'nailing to the cross' the unfortunate guy, maybe we are not reading the same forum???
4. From all written and the official report, it can be concluded that the guy had no ice axe but used trekking poles (guessing, GRS should confirm), classic winter hiking mistake (crampons and poles have nothing in common nor should they be used together).
5. Even with crampons you need to know how to walk, people often think that if they put crampons on their feet they are 'safe' from slips, very common delusion I see in the hills.
Overall, Nanos, especially when bora ices the summit part, is by no means a mountain to underestimate.
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| Katja664. 03. 2013 08:54:43 |
On Saturday from Razdrto to Vojka hut: still lots of snow, but in the afternoon already soft and sinking nicely. Across the meadow we decided to go left because really strong bora was blowing, very much snow but sinking to thighs. Down the easier path, but also in the forest lots of snow that sinks. Only in the evening was the snow firmer.
The hutkeeper told us that in the morning above the summit there was a nice cloud, it was well below zero and hurricane bora, so people were arriving up all white from frozen sweat.
Still a wonderful day!
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| Katja6617. 03. 2013 10:25:19 |
Hi forum!
Yesterday afternoon to Nanos from Razdrto. Steep path dry, only in the last third some snow patches. Down the long valley, some snow in forest, need to be careful.
Wonderful afternoon.
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| getz7. 04. 2013 22:25:22 |
Probably not right thread, anyway.
Would like to thank Vojka hut keepers who today selflessly helped me and solved my problems. Nice to see good people still exist.
Sincere thanks again!
Aljaž
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