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Alpinism School

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cvettka3. 10. 2012 18:11:19
Mountaineering schools vary quite a bit by sections. Ask yourself what you get for your money. At some schools you pay 300€ and get very little for it, sections like Kranj, Kamnik supposedly have very good schools... A year ago I inquired, but then time didn't allow it. If the tuition covers literature, equipment, over twenty lectures, 10 exercises and 15 full-day trips plus glacier course, plus 2h of sport climbing on the wall, and if you compare that to a one-day trip with a guide that costs 300€ and up, then let each judge for themselves how much it's worth. For yoga I pay 40€ per month, so 400 per year... there we have one master for us, on mountain trips there must be at least one per two trainees.
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vagabund4. 10. 2012 15:02:09
To make it harder for you to decide, here's some information about a mountaineering school that is just starting near Ljubljana. Since there are enough instructors at Rašica and some GV, that is already a guarantee that the program is of high quality.



http://ao.rasica.org/novice.php


http://ao.rasica.org/prikaz.php?stran=as_program
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ejti4. 10. 2012 21:02:23
MajaO, you have a private message.
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ljubitelj gora4. 10. 2012 21:54:46
When rope is mandatory on a trip, it's better to start in alpinism school beforehand, there you can learn many good things that help a lot on trips, otherwise doing something with the rope on your own could automatically mean committing suicide.
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VanSims4. 10. 2012 22:40:48
Just on the topic of the conversation between @MajaO and @Lunca:

>>>>MajaO said:<<<<<< If a person wants something in life, there's always a way to overcome distance and costs. Because the satisfaction that an activity can give you outweighs (and overshadows) the obstacles on the way.

Basically that's it. If you identify with what you want and if you know how to deny yourself what doesn't lead to your goal, you know how to critically judge all disturbing factors, tempting offers etc. with the criterion: does this contribute to realizing my goal?

Sadly most people rush into something, often thinking: I'll try and if it works, great, otherwise ok too (not identifying enough with their goal) and let themselves be seduced by things that don't lead to the goal. Then they do things half-way, which is as good as nothing! But they sure know how to complain how poor they are... that's why they have so much energy!

@viharnik: 'service' is always free, 'performance' is probably what you meant to say
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Matjaz_655. 10. 2012 07:33:27
free is not 0 rolling
the difference between service and performance is ... that for the latter the price is principally known ... while for the price of a service you never know for sure winking
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cebelca5. 10. 2012 08:20:09
Where do some of you see whining?
Simply some people expressed dissatisfaction with high prices. No one whined how poor they are.

And MajaO, I know you're a super girl, but please stop with your persuasion about how everything comes true if you just want it enough. Some really have nowhere to get it from. And maybe they can't muster as much energy as you have, because it's already hard for them now. Blessed are you who succeed, but don't judge everyone by yourself. And you attacked Lunco completely without reason.

If I return to the topic...

I myself enrolled in alpinism school about 3-4 years ago. I don't remember what the prices were then (maybe around 200EUR for one semester?), I just know I was completely disappointed with what I got for that money there. Apathetic and fed-up instructors, five or six lectures, and a few organized climbing trips within half a year, just enough to meet that quota, where we trainees were anyway more or less left to ourselves.

I do agree that it depends on the section and it's worth checking well beforehand. Some make an effort and for that money really offer a lot, others don't.

And the equipment you need to buy doesn't come cheap at all, already mandatory helmet, climbing shoes and harness are a considerable cost.
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Branee5. 10. 2012 08:36:26
I don't know what you think, that after completing the course you'll be experts? When you finish it you're only beginners and it's up to you to gradually complete yourselves, they will give you basic knowledge, which you will build on/improve over years and reach your potentials..
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cebelca5. 10. 2012 09:15:39
MajaO, if you knew how unrealistic, lofty and patronizing (also offensive) your posts often come across...as such, you're like a magnet for negative energy and bad karma.

Just for consideration.
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ljubitelj gora5. 10. 2012 09:21:15
Branee, you're right, they give you the basics, you build on them and it's not easy, everything depends on ourselves, how capable you are.
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cebelca5. 10. 2012 09:43:26
MajaO, no hard feelings. We really can't all please everyone.

Well, I like you, really maybe a bit more in real life than here, where you act like a spoiled girl who no one can say anything to. mežikanje

Nice that you're happy and stay happy, I didn't mean anything bad.
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jax5. 10. 2012 15:27:38
As for the alpinism school, I won't give more of my comments, I've already given one on previous pages, you can read it, but I'm somehow closer to cebelca's opinion than those who claim how super it is. But I have to comment on something else.

MajaO
5.10.2012 @cebelca: There's always enough work. You just have to see it. In our tower block we were looking for a cleaner and janitor for a long time. And in the neighboring ones too ...

Sorry, Maja, these neoliberal tricks are nonsensical in the best case, offensive in the worst. Yes, man is to blame for everything himself. No job? You're to blame. Feeling bad? You're to blame. Look, today 105441 job seekers were registered at ZRSZ and 1293 jobs advertised. Don't bullshit about how there's enough work for everyone, because there isn't. The system is fucked and neoliberal bubbles about personal responsibility can only hide that fact. You can babble about whatever cosmic energies, but the more obvious fact is that the current system is simply not sustainable and will lead to global catastrophe in a fairly short time. And I think the worst thing we can do in the given situation is to wrap ourselves in some new age phrases and say that nothing is really wrong, we're just not positive enough. Those are bubbles started by Reagan and Thatcher. Do you really want to compare yourselves to them? No, there are ohoho things wrong in the world, there's by no means room for everyone and that will soon blow up.
And you can consider me a hard core negativist, but that's the truth.
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Pohodnica565. 10. 2012 16:57:56
Bravo jax! Well written. Not just well, that's the "harsh" reality you've outlined.

Maja is anyway known for asserting only her own right, a bit egocentric person who thinks the world revolves around her.
Let her have her dreams.
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jožka5. 10. 2012 17:10:24
MajaO, I like you, and I'm not gay.

Any alpinism instructor from any school can tell and show you everything about alpinism equally well since they've all been through the same torture. Like most teachers, they also give as little as possible for the same money, except rarely if they discover talent and will in you. (After all, why teach mixes, bivouacking, glacier technique to someone who can't even climb stairs). But becoming a good alpinist is hard, much harder than e.g. a minister, you can't cheat here and sloppiness is effectively punished. Everything you need and more about mountaineering you can read yourself from texts and illustrations in numerous alpinism manuals. The advantage of AŠ is the opportunity to meet like-minded people with similar ambitions and abilities, to gradually supplement the acquired tips on the ground with them outside school. But no one can tell you which hold or step will hold, when and where a stone will fly, how long you'll hike somewhere, how quickly conditions will change during the tour (snow, ice, fog, lightning, avalanche), which gear is necessary etc., that's done by mileage. Most AO organize AŠ (why again), and they have their websites. There it says what they do and you can choose suitable for your needs. E.g.: In Lj there are several, one even specialized for makeup artists; in Domžale very friendly, swears by socializing, have picnics, celebrations, parties, but don't ''overdo'' in the mountains; most hiking register AO Kranj and Rašica, and there's a lot of it - more schools than good alpinists. Its A Long Way To The Top If Ya Wanna Alpinism. And the winning combination: If you're young and pretty, almost every GRS guy on a quickie will professionally reveal all mountaineering secrets to you including the obligatory bivouac, otherwise hire a GV and carefully observe, imitate and ask him and on one tour you learn almost everything needed to master forum rank routes. For via ferrata you need a special school and special gloves anyway, kenede. Best, your Jožka
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viharnik5. 10. 2012 17:10:30
With endurance, solidarity, positive thinking, orientation also elsewhere, not only material, one can live differently and focus spiritually and develop further. There at God's customs if someone drags something with them they remind that for God's kingdom these things are not needed and don't belong there. In short, your spirit must not be tied to the conditions as they are. Spirit is unconditional like pure atma, soul is conditional, human. Enlightened person never ties their spirit to the phenomenal world or conditions it in any way, saying if there's some problem in existential material, then I must feel worried or even sad or scared because of it. Even those who have enough of everything are not safe, although insured with highest premiums. None of that, above is the judge who judges only our good, punishes evil. And tomorrow is unknown how the day will look, so one must live fully in the present and nothing in the past and future. God's field acts and radiates here and now in full awareness of our spirit and not the matter surrounding us. Crisis comes so that man starts moving from material goods to his essence of existence, that eternal, unexplored that waits to be discovered, our inner treasure.
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Flora15. 10. 2012 17:53:06
Sorry for offtopic, but I allow myself because pages 5 and 6 are also full of jokes mežikanje.

@jožka: actually that sentence is incorrect Its A Long Way To The Top If Ya Wanna Alpinism eekeekeek. You can't just replace the word rock'n'roll with alpinism, because rock'n'roll has the function of a verb in this case (=to perform this dance), while alpinism doesn't in any case.
It's a song by AC/DC; It's a Long Way To the Top If Ya Wanna Rock'N'Roll.
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pohodnik115. 10. 2012 18:02:50
MajaO.. see people are slowly realizing the truth... As you see a person can hide for a while then the real face shows... no hard feelings
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lynx5. 10. 2012 18:08:19
The topic is about alpinism school, so please stop with the same personal reckonings.

jožka: to rile up someone else, which ao is specialized for makeup artists? velik nasmeh
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turbo5. 10. 2012 18:09:07
When I used to go to lectures at AO, in autumn 1985 and winter 1985/1986, the best thing was that there was a regular bus to Pokljuka on weekends. And we walked from the then Sports Hotel to Rudno polje, from there to Viševnik and from there via Konjščica and Uskovnica to Bohinj and to the bus and home. On the way up to Viševnik they taught us to walk "duck-like" with crampons and on the way down from Viševnik we threw ourselves on the ground in all possible ways and "braked" with the ice axe. And if you had your ears pricked up during the day, if you were chatty and asked a lot, you learned a lot that came in handy later. And it still does.

Actually, I just wanted to say that it might depend more on the individual than on the AO, how much and what one takes from the training. Something like that.
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VanSims5. 10. 2012 18:32:14
Well, @jax nicely described the mindset that brought us to where we are today.

That's exactly what was wrong because people are not responsible. That's the cancerous sore of today's society. Shifting responsibility to others and blaming circumstances and the tendency to always go the line of least resistance:

- the state should take care of us and our welfare. And preferably in a way that we have to work as little as possible.

- at work we avoid additional work, responsibilities and tasks as much as possible. So we don't overstretch ourselves or so we get through as best as possible. 'I'm not doing that - that's not my job!' If possible, let someone else do it. Well, when crisis, rationalization and layoffs come, we wonder why we end up on the layoff list. And there's nothing strange. Those with the least work, tasks and responsibilities end up there, because the company misses them the least!

-after years of ruining our health with unhealthy lifestyle we shift the responsibility for it to the doctor or health system. The system is guilty again! No one thinks how much we could save in the health fund if everyone took responsibility for their health in time and health care dealt only with those unavoidable 'it just happens' cases. Enough to have the best system in Europe.

105441 unemployed. Yes, many of them not by their fault. But when you read about unemployed who say: "For less than 700 EUR I won't work" And such nicely hang on social welfare and state treasury and steal money from those who really need it. But we all complain how incompetent companies and banks milk the state treasury

Can we still talk about capitalism? Yeah right! We have socialism for the incompetent and irresponsible. That's why we're where we are.

Everyone just waits for manna to fall from heaven! When everyone shifts responsibility to others, at least once for most of us the moment comes when it doesn't work anymore. Do we at least then ask ourselves if we perhaps contributed something to it? Where! Most often we console ourselves with the following phrases:

- No one gives me a chance!
- Bad luck always follows me!
- In these times you can't work normally anymore!
- The system is in sh*t!
- The whole society needs to be changed!

Or in purely private life:

- No one understands me!
- I have no luck in love!
- Oh, if only I hadn't married such a jerk!
- The damn wife is guilty because she keeps irritating me!
- Bad company is guilty that my child went astray!

Instead of doing something and thinking (yes, some fear thinking like the devil fears the cross and that's why everyone cheats them because they are part of the faceless mass) what to do, it's much more comfortable to blame everything on others and pity ourselves. Then it's just like that.

@jax: no one said there's nothing wrong, only if everyone cleared it up for themselves it would be best for everyone. It's wrong in people's heads! That's how some groups, people appear who offer us real new age nonsense about how society needs to be changed, various communisms and protesters in front of the stock exchange and civil initiatives and churches,... And people fall for it because they have an excuse again that we don't have to do anything for ourselves. It will be better someday! We'll fight together!

As for me, I'll rather look what I can do for myself and not rely on others. Let them try to change the system and fight for a better society. Why not! Although they haven't succeeded in 20 years since independence, the future is long and maybe someday they'll make it! mežikanje
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