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| panda11. 07. 2013 12:24:47 |
The Kamnik Saddle tour can also go from Logar Valley. The seemingly innocent climbing path can quickly turn into an accident for the inexperienced or not attentive enough. My motto in mountains: don't underestimate any path, even if it's so easy. And safe step to all high mountain nature lovers.
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| Zebdi11. 07. 2013 12:30:15 |
primoza wrote it right. Traps hide also elsewhere than just in technical difficulty of the tour. From Kamniška Bistrica to the hut one needs to overcome 1200+ meters elevation gain, which can be a problem for someone. It is wrong to conclude that if two (otherwise fitness excellently prepared) kids pass the path easily, it is suitable for everyone. And in this context the warning is definitely in place.
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| Daaam11. 07. 2013 12:31:12 |
@ms primoz..I think primoza's statement is maybe really a bit unfortunate, but you could convince yourself by clicking on his profile, to whom you're discouraging mountain visits... probably he could teach you a lot.
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| VanSims11. 07. 2013 12:32:48 |
Fatal accidents have happened even on Šmarna gora, on Osojščica above Bled a foreigner fatally injured himself some 4-5 years ago and - injured the mountain rescuer who reached him(!). So, no exaggerating.
Otherwise those who read some post by primoza and look at a picture, knew right away which two young enthusiasts it concerns! 
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| Keko11. 07. 2013 12:38:12 |
One example: You go to Kamnik Saddle on this path with poor fitness, new, too tight and unbroken-in shoes, forecasted afternoon thunderstorms.
The tour can turn into real hell that you'll remember all your life and tell your grandchildren many times as a lesson on how not to go to the mountains, if you're not ashamed of course.
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| pikica111. 07. 2013 12:39:00 |
Every year several people get into accidents while picking mushrooms. In the mountains it can all happen even faster, the tour isn't child's play, even though the kids did it on their own.
Kudos to Ajda and Žan, keep it up
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| gams4411. 07. 2013 12:43:19 |
and you're rediscovering hot water again
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| Rokovnjacica11. 07. 2013 12:48:15 |
Ajda and Žan!You rock, really! You've reminded me of the time when at your age I took my cousin to the saddle... Be careful and enjoy!
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| urbancek11. 07. 2013 12:48:27 |
Traps often hide on "easy" paths too... Of course. E.g. when returning from a long and demanding tour, excessive fatigue, slight inattention or minor chronic injury (e.g. knee) can make some scree or drop fatal, even if it's just 10 min from the car and already fully in the valley on "easy" terrain. And you could have climbed extremely demanding and much more "dangerous" paths up top, something can still happen right before the end of the tour in the valley. As panda says, every path with respect and always keep in mind that the summit is only halfway.
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| ms_primoz11. 07. 2013 13:18:21 |
Yeah, right, now when I go to the store for bread a storm can surprise me, a plane crashes, a bus runs me over, grandma hits me with her purse - and what's the lesson now of my described path - yeah that according to "your" every path is deadly dangerous and you can't underestimate any path. That two minors go today to Kamniško sedlo from Bistrica, there's no danger threatening them at all. You make bogeymen out of everything. When I was 10 I climbed a 15m tree, and the neighbor didn't philosophize at all how I need to be physically prepared and .... in short, don't make an elephant out of nothing.
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 13:38:27 |
Zebdi, one thing is claiming the path is suitable for everyone, another is saying there are "traps" on the path. No traps, period.
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 13:41:17 |
To Kekot: Hey, who says something can't happen to you on the way from the bedroom to the bathroom? Of course it can. And who said someone released yesterday after heart surgery should go to Triglav?
primoz was talking about TRAPS of the path itself!! That's simply DEAD WRONG!
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| Zebdi11. 07. 2013 13:47:01 |
SamoK, when I took an alpinism course at Kamniško sedlo years ago, a nice July morning greeted us with 5 cm of snow. As I said, traps can hide elsewhere, not in technical difficulty. Offhand I'd say technical difficulty isn't even a trap, since it basically doesn't change over time. To me, weather turns seem much more nasty. The tour isn't the shortest either...
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 13:51:39 |
This emphasis on mountain dangers that some push (even media) is in my conviction way off base. Mountains objectively aren't dangerous. It's only dangerous if the person going doesn't know what they're getting into and doesn't know their own fitness. Unlike roads which are really objectively dangerous, because you can drive ever so safely and according to your skills, but some lunatic comes flying from behind a corner!
I really don't get this stressing how dangerous mountains are. Nothing dangerous at all! Tempts me to even say nowhere else is less dangerous )
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| ms_primoz11. 07. 2013 13:51:51 |
SamoK - at least one more who can think.
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 13:54:21 |
Zebdi, what you wrote about sudden weather change is true, but:
- first, it's a given in mountains. Whoever went to serious mountains more than twice knows it. So no "trap". It's just preparedness or unpreparedness.
- second, hey, it's KAMNIŠKO SEDLO from KAMNIŠKA BISTRICA. Less dangerous than in Tivoli, no trap at all. 5 cm snow? So?
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| Keko11. 07. 2013 13:55:18 |
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 13:59:29 |
Keko, three unprepared tourists got lost. I know someone who fell into a ditch on the way home from the pub. Is the ditch a trap because of that?
Don't belittle the mountains with mentions of "traps". Mountains are there as they are, if visitors can't prepare for them, that's not a trap, hey!
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| Zebdi11. 07. 2013 13:59:36 |
SamoK, that's simply not true. Even in mountains there are factors you practically can't influence or prepare for, you can avoid them only by staying home. Of course you can reduce risk by choosing a tour suitable for your fitness and experience and preparing properly, but you can't eliminate risk completely.
And warning about factors worth considering when visiting mountains is in no way scaremongering, but rather prevention. If such warnings weren't needed, probably there wouldn't be GRS interventions either?
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 14:02:21 |
Zebdi, I fully agree with what you wrote last. I just disagree with the term "traps" that are supposed to be in the mountains. It's simply belittling to the mountains.
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