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| Keko11. 07. 2013 14:11:34 |
The word "trap" is also often used in professional mountaineering literature and various courses and trainings precisely to warn about such things and it's not some invention of his. He just wanted to kindly point out that it's high mountains and not a walk to the store.
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| ms_primoz11. 07. 2013 14:14:59 |
simply, Zebdi, stay home and ponder about traps. And don't scare other mountaineers because of your incompetence and, as SamoK said, don't belittle the mountains. no hard feelings.
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 14:15:29 |
I know he didn't invent the term "trap" and I know it's widely used. Well, maybe it's high time to point this out and banish the term. It's really belittling, as mountains come across as some hostile factor just waiting to catch an innocent little person in its deadly embrace.
Warning is right and I think hribi.net does a great job at this by providing objective conditions that mountaineers should be prepared for. But that can be done completely without belittling the mountains. Sorry, maybe I'm a believer, but this is really inappropriate.
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| Zebdi11. 07. 2013 14:28:40 |
@SamoK: We'll slowly find out we're all on the same wavelength, but the devil is in the naming. Mountains themselves are of course not traps, traps are at most factors whose existence we are unaware of and which can (decisively) change the course of events. Once we're aware of such a factor, we can prepare accordingly and it no longer represents a trap we can fall into  If I return to those unfortunate 5cm of snow (and consequent cooling of the air). If we're not aware of the possibility of such a weather turnaround and thus don't consider it in tour preparation, it can surprise us in improper footwear, too few warm clothes, etc. From there to hypothermia isn't far, although some GRS guy could say more about that. But if we keep in mind that such a change can occur and take appropriate footwear and warm clothes, nothing bad will happen.
@ms_primoz: some understand well-meant warnings, others don't. I don't care 
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 14:37:55 |
Zebdi, what if we took one more little step and wouldn't even call factors traps? They are just factors. How you prepare for them is your personal approach to the mountains, to life, to yourself. It's not something objective in terms of danger.
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 14:38:33 |
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| VanSims11. 07. 2013 14:46:16 |
The term "trap" up or down, we're not going to argue about semantics now. What should we say: lurking dangers? In short, something can happen to us in the mountains! We can reduce the danger with proper preparation, knowledge, equipment... everything a mountaineer needs to know, understand, master, have with him (and of course know how to use) - but the danger still unfortunately exists. Oh, now they are "factors"... whatever... doesn't change things!
Even on easy paths there are dangers, traps,... or whatever we call it... in short, something can happen to us. Even more easily because of underestimation.
The most experienced alpinists (whose deaths resonate more in the media) often have accidents on "ordinary" via ferratas or less demanding pathless terrain. Because they pay less attention there. For us ordinary mortals, who aren't chasing media spotlights and who, say, are careful on e.g. via ferratas and easier pathless terrain, the dangerous paths are even those one step lower. Because we underestimate them. What can happen to me on the way to Kamnik Saddle? Plenty!
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| cebelca11. 07. 2013 16:18:06 |
You haven't written or said anything that everyone before you hasn't already, so also those who supposedly don't understand hiking in the mountains.
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| VanSims11. 07. 2013 16:29:31 |
@primoza: it's good that you wrote that, attached links. Whoever understands it can benefit, it might even save him. I believe that was your intention and not arguing with those who anyway won't ever get it or enjoy quarreling over a mouse hair.
@cebelica: I understand that you vent your life frustrations and troubles by provoking in less sensitive sections, but that you're so impure (to put it diplomatically) and don't stop even at such sensitive topics where you can fatally mislead many (especially beginners who read this portal)... that I didn't think.
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| laik11. 07. 2013 17:50:16 |
my opinion (given the nickname) probably won't be authoritative... what is a "walk" or "afternoon hop" for someone is an adventure for me.... every time again.. maybe as a beginner I approach a bit too cautiously and respectfully... but on this site I've already got a lot of useful tips and info..... greetings to all 
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 17:54:56 |
primoza, are you normal? That "some really don't understand hiking in the mountains"? What does that mean? That you understand it and if someone doesn't agree with you, then they don't understand hiking in the mountains?
Hey, go play with such narrow-mindedness. You're one of those who think there's a "right" way to hike in the mountains? Listen, arrogant guy, the mountains are there, whoever wants can go up thank God. How they do it is entirely their business. If I, for example, go in sandals through snow, that's my business, I don't advise it to anyone, let alone force them. And I don't allow some snotnose to bug me that it's not the right way to hike in the mountains.
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| SamoK11. 07. 2013 18:01:13 |
My personal belief is that the modern world is way way too scared. Look how they used to hike in the mountains, today a little is missing and someone will ask if you need ice axe and helmet to Kamnik Saddle in summer.
Once again I emphasize that this is my personal opinion, which I don't impose on anyone and basically I don't care if someone shakes with fear looking up from Bistrita and thinks what traps await him. But such an approach to the mountains doesn't interest me.
Good thing the route descriptions on these websites don't follow primoza's criteria, otherwise we'd be reading pure thrillers.
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| viharnik11. 07. 2013 18:05:27 |
Primož and some others are right about the explanation of hiking in the mountains.
Those who hike more in the mountains have a specially developed sense for the terrain, they can assess right away how to move there, where to avoid terrain, they feel the contact with feet and ground much better than just Sunday hikers, so they rarely slip. They also know how to distribute strength well by hiking pace, because they know their form inside out, and also the elevation meters they will overcome. They also know the weather well and know when a bad storm is approaching.
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| VesnaM11. 07. 2013 18:11:09 |
I think the ascent to Kamnik Saddle isn't such a big deal.. caution is needed, but there are also tougher hikes where a warning would be more desirable.. Every mountain.. every goal.. must be respected and one must be careful at every step... And safe in the mountains .. Best regards
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| laik11. 07. 2013 18:12:10 |
viharnik, I completely agree with you.....that's why, as a complete beginner, I listen to their advice and of course follow it.....I'd rather read some advice than arguing or even mudslinging......
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| dprapr11. 07. 2013 18:21:53 |
The children have made such a nice description of their independent outing, but you preferred to "hang onto" one well-meaning statement from the father, who probably just wanted to say that such an independent trip isn't suitable for everyone, even if it's only the ascent to Kamniško Saddle.
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| tinky11. 07. 2013 19:24:00 |
Take a look around the forum a bit, where Žan and Ajda have already been everywhere. I think their parents trust them, that's why they let them go to the saddle alone. I've checked most of the photos where they stand on the highest peaks in good and bad weather. Congratulations to both and safe steps ahead.
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| viharnik11. 07. 2013 19:36:57 |
I also think that Žan and Ajda are already quite at home in the mountain world up to a certain difficulty level and master hiking in mountain terrain well, with a lot already walked. If they are carefully focused on the paths and not frolicking, they will manage many other tours on their own.
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| ms_primoz11. 07. 2013 21:57:26 |
Soon it will say: In the end - Kamniško Saddle - extremely demanding path. That's exactly how the world turns today and the people with it, as SamoK wrote: My personal conviction is that the modern world is much much too scared. Look how they used to go to the mountains, today a little is missing, and someone will ask if you need to go to Kamniško Saddle in summer with ice axe and helmet...
what makes me happy is that there are still people who know how to think with their own head.
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