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| lino24. 09. 2016 18:37:01 |
Because you're the patient, pankrt?
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| VanSims24. 09. 2016 19:50:01 |
Discrediting, hanging on spelling and various other crap in the head. Those are arguments of those who don't have them.
@herman8: 'rapes, shoots hostages, burns homes, transports'
Look, this could have been easily avoided. Just like all smart European nations did. The Germans were crushed by the united coalition of four big ones: France, Britain, USA and Russia. And even they needed four years for that. And they reacted only when they were attacked themselves. If Hitler hadn't been so crazy to attack these four superpowers, even the fiercest resistance in small European countries wouldn't have helped. Real question what would be today...
Guerrillas were pointless. To some extent they could embitter the Germans' lives but Germans made theirs even more bitter. Actually the people. Yes, and then they really did what you list.
Resistance movements existed in almost every country but underground, operating in secrecy and doing what the resistors risked their heads for and only they, not the whole nation suffering because of them. Above I listed examples. In very few countries were they so crazy to think they would expel Germans themselves.
But didn't you communists teach us in school that NOB was also revolutionary struggle. I still remember that. Now when your revolution failed and everyone sees where you brought the Slovenian nation, you would silence it and say it was just resistance against the enemy...
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| Zebdi24. 09. 2016 20:23:21 |
..just like all smart European nations...
Smart European nations avoided violence against civilians with their behavior? What the hell were they burning in crematoriums then - logs?
A tiny bit of objectivity wouldn't hurt... 
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| Trobec24. 09. 2016 21:34:00 |
I wanted to avoid debate at this level, but unfortunately, it can't be done.
@VanSims, a little knowledge of history wouldn't hurt. Especially read something about Nazi racial laws.
Jews, Gypsies and some other group were worth the least. They were destined for crematoria without delay. Slavs were just one level above them. Slaves. Without human rights, merely labor cattle that would serve the Aryans. Dutch, French and other Westerners were one level above us, they had some human rights. So comparisons with the Dutch queen are ridiculous, claims about partisans provoking the German army are an insult to history. Violent resettlements, rapes, tortures and the like would have happened even without partisans. As for the tables, Ustashas and such... Hitler hated traitors from the bottom of his soul (complex from WWI). And if he had won the war, Home Guards would no longer be German allies, Ustashas wouldn't have their state anymore, both would suddenly become less worthy than partisans. Partisans were German enemies, but at least they had balls, national pride. Home Guards were traitors to their own nation.
Aja, when I write partisans, I also mean literally partisans (those who fought for the homeland in the forests), I'm not speaking in terms of political affiliation (my grandpa for example was never in the party, although he was in partisans practically the whole war).
Otherwise, I hope the debate ends as soon as possible, because in my opinion it really doesn't belong on this site. I have no intention of commenting anymore.
Nice hiking greetings and safe steps to all (regardless of political affiliation)!
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| Guest25. 09. 2016 12:33:55 |
There's nothing wrong if everyone has their own faith, wrong is only if we force it into the forefront and boast about it, but don't behave as it teaches us.
Faiths are humanity's evil, which with their primitive and invented beliefs spread evil among people.
Likewise, faiths are just a band-aid on the wounded and scared soul of people.
Also the mosque and minaret in Ljubljana just symbolize victory over the local population.
You can fool some people, but not all the time.
Have a nice day further.
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| Becar25. 09. 2016 15:08:16 |
If anything will help you, it will be from somewhere else, higher powers, cosmos... Such a figurine from the market certainly won't help you at all.
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| SamoK25. 09. 2016 15:12:11 |
Unless the viharnik blesses it.
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| VanSims25. 09. 2016 18:08:46 |
@Zebdi, Trobec: Of course civilians get the short end in every war. The more modern wars have been throughout history, the truer this is. The times are gone when armies met in the middle of the field and clashed. Already the First World War had many civilian casualties, the Second even more, today's from Balkan, African to Syrian (percentage-wise) even more. Unfortunately, that's how it is.
But some victims could have been avoided. Why cause even more than necessary?
I know well what the racial laws of Hitler's empire were like. But if you didn't belong to any of the 'risky' groups, you could get away well, with a bit of salt in your head. And of course if you didn't live in the middle of NOB and were e.g. accidentally among the victims of 'ten civilians for one' or the 'liberators' finished you off because they just suspected you collaborated with the other side or because of a nosy neighbor who reported you for nothing and loaded some nonsense about you.
War crimes were committed by all: home guards, partisans, Nazis, Allies. Army is army.
No need to believe all official history. History is always written by the victors and it was no different after WWII here and in Europe.
And so we're not just talking about partisans. How many Allied commanders would deserve Nuremberg? Dresden (until then known as Florence on the Elbe and which was strategically just an important railway junction, the first barracks were 5 km out of town) is just the tip of the iceberg they couldn't hide. "Hey, John what are we bombing today?" "Let's do Dresden today!" And the city went to dust and ruins. And how many more! They also bombed small, unimportant towns that had no connection to the war.
Approximately a quarter of Allied bombings were really strategic and necessary, the rest was plain terrorism! Intimidating already scared Germans. What did they think, that they would pressure the folk to revolt, when a German without permission of the 'great führer' couldn't even fart without risking camp... Not to mention that Germany at the end of the forties was one big camp. Allied, to be clear.
And the atomic bombs on Japan? Just a testing ground for trying new weapons live. Japanese were ready to surrender before, fairy tales that the atomic bomb forced them are pulled out of thin air, since they didn't even know that weapon then, neither radiation nor long-term effects. Just a slightly stronger bomb!
Japanese surrendered because they were afraid of Russians! The emperor and his knew well what awaited them under them and preferred to surrender to Americans rather than be taken by Russians. On land of course! Russians who in front of Moscow used their soldiers as cannon fodder for Germans wouldn't care about huge casualties of such invasion. Americans later calculated a nice million of their marines if they decided on that.
You need to read a bit more than what official histories told us and you'll think a bit right away.
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| GregorC25. 09. 2016 18:19:49 |
VanSims you totally missed the forum.
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| simon7926. 09. 2016 14:05:27 |
He he. One can only grab one's head, stop reading this and head to the mountains!
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| herman826. 09. 2016 14:49:47 |
From Sims' writing style, I suspected a year ago or so that something was wrong with him. Now it's probably clear to everyone that the guy needs help. Unfortunately, that's probably no longer possible. The only one who could help him is the late Dr. Janez Rugelj.
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| margu5026. 09. 2016 15:14:22 |
User! And you think this is worth imitating? Where are we sinking to? "Der hat sich aufgeführt wie ein wildes Tier" Like a wild beast he went after the cross. Do we need to encourage the beast in man. I thought that at least in the mountains such intolerants don't go. Unfortunately I was wrong, from the following comments.
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| VanSims26. 09. 2016 18:24:12 |
@en-goldy: faith is, as you point out yourself, a personal human thing. But we shouldn't mix it with religions or churches that abuse them. Religion-Church is the same relationship as Communism-Party!
The mosque you mention, in my opinion, isn't even that noticeable as I first feared. The minaret isn't all that high and if it weren't there, you wouldn't even see it's a mosque. It reminds me most of some swimming pool or shopping center. Modern architecture, of course...
@Becar: you hit the point. Statues, icons, crosses were meant to help people back when they weren't so educated, so they could imagine those forces and energies more easily in some graphical, human form. Then it degenerated and with all this modern worship of these objects, one wonders what makes Christians better than pagans? These objects can indeed be a means for those not on a spiritual level to believe in those forces, energies,... believing that exactly that little statue or icon or cross helped you is of course absurd.
@user, margu50: no worries, there if they find him he won't escape punishment. Here you'd get at least a year in jail for wrecking some NOB monument, for a cross conditional a few months.
@herman8: you mentioned the real one. Did you know that many suspected something was wrong with him and he needed help. In the former regime, that is. And he's yours by conviction...
Anyway with all this I feel like making a cross myself if I had a bit of carpentry talent and carrying it to some hill. Even though this symbol doesn't mean much to me.
And until now I thought clerics were more aggressive and intolerant to those who just tell their opinion...
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| margu5026. 09. 2016 19:38:34 |
VanSims I wouldn't comment if there wasn't so much hateful intolerance expressed towards the symbol of Christianity-the cross. Our cultural heritage comes from Christianity, that there's a little church on every hill gives this land its stamp. And that about tearing down crosses on mountain tops could quickly spread to other symbols of national heritage. When cultural performance is burning a cross and a rat in the arms of the mother of God, some people just don't stop at anything.
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| Daaam26. 09. 2016 20:02:53 |
Where our cultural heritage comes from depends only on how far back you look  ..for some the world ends at partisan markers, others look further to the period of building churches on every bump, to tell the truth, it would be fair to sometimes look even further into the past... After all, three quarters or more of church (Catholic) holidays and customs are "taken" from pagan customs. ...well before you lynch me I'll tell you my profile  Christian upbringing and I'm not ashamed of it at all..even though the Roman Catholic Church as an institution really gets on my n....nerves  . For all fanatics..God gave the commandment Thou shalt not worship idols..-The RCC of course abolished this commandment.. Which means according to the teaching of the Old Testament (Muslims stick to it) all crosses, pictures, icons etc. fall away ... So..Viharnik ..be cool and take that idol of yours back to your garage and bless it there as much as your soul desires..
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| viharnik26. 09. 2016 21:40:09 |
Despite the new mosque for the Union factory, we Slovenes are still an authentic nation of Christian roots; we neglected the crosses on the mountains due to the influence of the party and communism in the pastAlready just the chapels at Molička and Kredarica or on the Ceria Merlone path to depict the true spiritual, original, traditional image of the nation.
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| SamoK26. 09. 2016 23:04:20 |
>... authentic nation of Christian roots ...
Christianized with sword and blood, better said.
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| Pankrt27. 09. 2016 00:32:51 |
Hey guru, Slovenes are also with a capital letter...
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