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| edokrnic14. 01. 2012 19:52:56 |
Although I refrain from commenting, I already apologize to Juš in advance because I just thought wrong. I also admit that I'm a bumbar.
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| sodnick14. 01. 2012 20:05:21 |
Juš, as a non-expert I'm interested why the southern one is more dangerous. I assume due to the sun and consequently higher chance of avalanches? Please a short explanation.
LP
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| JusAvgustin14. 01. 2012 20:34:40 |
First an apology, because I was so in attack... A few things are important before starting about negativism, arrogance and all other negative things... Steep southern slopes are generally not used in winter mainly due to the sun's influence on the slope, wind blowing snow into cornices etc... These slopes are much more unstable than northern ones, where the sun doesn't shine and snow conditions are generally more stable than southern. The base also has a big influence, which on S. sides is mostly grassy scree and shrubs. Especially at a mountain like Vrtača it's very dangerous to use the S side as access to the summit due to increased risk of snow avalanches that often release on these slopes. It's mistaken to think the snow cover is now stable, since there isn't even the "first layer" yet. The southern gully is basically one big avalanche chute, where with additional load we can trigger a snow avalanche. Especially dangerous because snow due to temperatures is reworked to a degree and the triggered avalanche won't be powder but "concrete". Even if smaller amount of snow releases, it causes domino effect and everyone in the gully then (base is grassy scree and gravel) will be literally swept away. Also for descent the gully is most of the time unsuitable, big slip risk. The gully itself is extremely attractive and allows relatively quick summit access. What I wanted to say is only that the gully at very low temps is generally safe, but not always by any means. Just that... For winter approach to Vrtača use V couloir or wrongly named: Y. Mountains around Zelenica are known for avalanches and "n" avalanche paths. For other questions I'm always available on PM.
Lp, sorry once again. Maybe things are clearer now
Juš
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| sodnick14. 01. 2012 21:07:39 |
Thanks. I explained it to myself in that direction too.
Otherwise the southern gully is also described in the book Winter Ascents in Slovenian Mountains (Vladimir Habjan) and suggested as descent route.
LP
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| pikec114. 01. 2012 21:36:07 |
LP
When I was up on Vrtača via the couloir on Thursday, I thought about going up the southern valley like some of you did, but I remembered the southern side is mostly grassy and grass and snow don't mix (I know from Kam.vrh). Also, underestimating V couloir (Vespa) isn't smart. Even a small mistake can cost a lot. On Thursday there were no visible traces of southern ascent yet. True, it was already a late hour (14h) and the sun was really ,,burning,,  The view was really magnificent as Penzionist said, who a bit later with his dog approached the top.
Let's go safely on, and good luck
Lp Grega
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| vespa15. 01. 2012 08:15:25 |
Jus, I've been following you on this portal for long, but your answer yesterday to my entry was inappropriate. As written, yesterday conditions in southern gully were ideal due to extremely low temperatures, in V gully not. Here it's not about underestimating V gully Pikec1, conditions in it were worse (read more dangerous). Surely still today. And that's all I wanted to tell others on portal yesterday. Those were conditions yesterday, whether I write nonsense or not. Check conditions on site and judge yourselves. I really don't have tons of gully experience, but I know when conditions are good and when bad. And safe steps to all.
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| urbancek15. 01. 2012 08:37:57 |
Something interesting: According to books and generally northern slopes are more dangerous for avalanches -> snow doesn't transform so fast + windslabs etc.
In case of Vrtača or Karavanke this often doesn't apply, as Juš already told you. Extensive terrain, grassy base...no escape...
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| dv15. 01. 2012 13:49:22 |
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| urbancek15. 01. 2012 17:48:46 |
I don't get what folks get from skiing in current snow conditions?
Especially in Karavanke...LOL...
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| viharnik15. 01. 2012 17:57:52 |
Southern grassy base of Karavanke dangerous only with lots of new snow winter and spring when sun softens snow to extent water breaks snow-base bond. In current polar conditions and transformed snow nothing to fear there, unless rare deep slab appears.
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| Marky23. 02. 2012 20:17:34 |
Has anyone perhaps been to Vrtača in these days?
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| socialac1. 03. 2012 19:45:15 |
I'm also interested if eastern (Y) gully still passable for winter approach to Vrtača or too much snow melted in these days
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| muša6. 03. 2012 15:34:56 |
On Saturday 3.3.2012 via eastern couloir from Austria to Palec. From Palec conditions on Vrtača well visible, Y gully fully filled, talked with two returning from Vrtača who said snow sinks heavily in gully. Given many mountaineers in gully assume good steps made, definitely recommend earliest possible hour.
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| lijaneja8. 03. 2012 07:51:28 |
The five on the second picture obviously attacked the wrong branch of the Y-fork.
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| gj8. 03. 2012 08:45:00 |
It happens or maybe they wanted to peek a bit
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| muša9. 03. 2012 08:32:42 |
Those were Austrians, in my opinion they didn't know, but successfully traversed left under the summit and descended as needed.
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| Dominic9. 03. 2012 19:13:45 |
Yeah and it's true they wandered into the wrong variant or not..
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| tomko11. 03. 2012 18:16:25 |
Today with colleague at 5 start from Ljubelj and attack on Vrtača. At start moon lit the path, at Zelenica dawning. Path super early because frozen. Gully filled except one jump where ice forming. Weather super just wind annoying a bit. Around noon starts melting at these temps.
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| traceour25. 03. 2012 18:11:34 |
on Friday 23.3 route lubel-vrtača southern side, trip top, started with colleague half 9 and through bushes abnormally hot, towards summit little wind, snow didn't sink on ascent after hour rest half 12 completely softened... Nice Friday tour though..
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